View Poll Results: Did the USA cause the Ukraine Crisis.

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Thread: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202013.

  1. #71
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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Fixed that for ya Dave
    What is conspiratorial about revealing an audio and video of a speech by a member
    of the Ukrainian Parliament revealing the Kiev Coup plot operting out of the US
    Embassy. Just history as it happened. Of course, it is in diametric opposition to
    the balderash that you are spewing, but is supported by video, don't ya' know?

  2. #72
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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    What is conspiratorial about revealing an audio and video of a speech by a member of the Ukrainian Parliament
    Your little darling MP was expelled from parliament by his own political party for his treasonous antics and then fled to eastern Ukraine where he now heads a rebel separatist movement.

    He should probably hang.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

    Repeal and Replace Trump.

  3. #73
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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Your little darling MP was expelled from parliament by his own political party for his treasonous antics and then fled to eastern Ukraine where he now heads a rebel separatist movement.

    He should probably hang.
    His speech was prior to Maidan and identified the perpetrators. He whould have
    been listened to and his warnings heeded. The people of Ukraine are much worse
    off and getting worse every day, under the current Fascist Oligarchs. You are just
    mad because the guy was right and everything he said was true. It kinda, sorta, surely
    throws a monkey wrench in your propaganda blitz.

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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    BTW.. his ultimate Novorossiya treasonous goals go far beyond the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. His organizations aim is to deliver six additional Ukraine regions - Kharkiv, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, Kherson, Mykolaiv, and Odessa to Russia. The same goal as that of the terrorist Black Hundreds (chernosotentsy) who wreaked havoc in Ukraine during the early 20th century. The only difference is the beneficiary of their terrorism. The Czar back then, Putin today.


    Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

    Repeal and Replace Trump.

  5. #75
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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Putin's dream - the Eurasian Economic Union - (actually the brainchild of Kazakhstan President Nursultan Nazarbayev in 1994) was doomed the moment Putin invaded and illegally annexed Ukraine's Crimea on the fabricated grounds of "protecting Russian speakers".
    I think the concept has been in US crosshairs for quite a while. Here's a some excerpts from 2001, 14 years ago.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin and his administration espouse a nationalist agenda that seeks to re-establish Russia as a great world power and to offset America's global leadership position. Putin and his security team have issued a series of documents that call the United States, and the "unipolar world order" it allegedly promotes, a major threat to the Russian state.
    Vladimir Putin began a whirlwind foreign policy offensive to improve Russia's status in the region and the world even before he became president of Russia on May 7, 2000.
    Putin's effort to enhance Russia's position includes a promise to increase substantially the sales of Russian oil, natural gas, and electricity to Europe. Moreover, to gain a louder voice in European security policy,6 the Putin administration has broached the idea of joining the controversial European Security and Defense Policy (ESDP) initiative, a joint military structure for the European Union (EU) that some countries hope will counterbalance America's role in European security in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).
    Putin is using arms sales to boost Russia's influence as well, signing large deals in 2000 with China, India, and Iran that total almost $10 billion.
    To strengthen his position as a global leader, Putin made appearances at the G-8 summit in Okinawa and the Millennium Summit at the United Nations in September 2000, the summits of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) in Moscow and Yalta, a bilateral summit with the EU in Paris, and the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) forum in Brunei in November.
    Behind this public relations effort is a steely commitment to Russia's re-emergence in the "major league" of nations. The focus on Russia's strategic and economic interests covers up the inherent weakness in this approach: the Russian economy, which is based on obsolete industries and a rapidly aging population and which has contracted by more than 50 percent since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Putin and his administration seek an external opponent--similar to what Great Britain was for imperial Russia in the 19th century during their "Great Game" for control of Central Asia and the Caucasus10--that enables them to make a show of Russia's strengths. It appears, from Russia's actions and national security and foreign policy documents, that the opponent it has chosen is the United States. Putin is campaigning for allies in this effort by making deals with states like China and India. The implications of this offensive for U.S.-Russian policy in the future can be found in the fronts on which Putin's campaign is being waged.
    Here's the interesting part. Read carefully.

    Russia's elites are preoccupied with advancing "Eurasianism," which sees Russia as the "ultimate World-Island state" apart from, and hostile to, the maritime and commercial Euro-Atlantic world.12 Russian analysts such as Yu. V. Tikhonravov argue that the nation holds a special place in the Eastern Hemisphere as a counterbalance to the "globalist" U.S.-led hegemony; their works are now part of the college curriculum approved by the Ministry of Higher Education.13 Because the West is so often portrayed as materialistic and corrupt, many Eurasianists advocate closer cooperation with China, the Arab world, and Iran while espousing anti-Turkic rhetoric.

  6. #76
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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    Putin's dream - the Eurasian Economic Union - (actually the brainchild of Kazakhstan President Nursultan Nazarbayev in 1994) was doomed the moment Putin invaded and illegally annexed Ukraine's Crimea on the fabricated grounds of "protecting Russian speakers".
    This is part II of stuff from that 2001 piece.

    PUTIN'S MULTIPOLAR WORLD VIEW

    Even before Vladimir Putin ascended to his country's highest office, as the head of the National Security Council, director of the FSB, and then acting prime minister, he presided over the formulation of four important government documents that articulate Russia's foreign and defense policy. These documents, taken together, explain the new "Putin Doctrine" for Russian national security in the 21st century and demonstrate Moscow's step back to more traditional Russian and Soviet threat assessments. The documents include:

    A Defense Doctrine, published in draft form in October 1999 and reissued by presidential decree on April 21, 2000;

    A National Security Concept unveiled in January 2000;

    The Foreign Policy Concept adopted on July 30, 2000; and

    The Information Security Concept adopted in August 2000.33

    Following the themes first espoused by former Prime Minister Primakov, these documents decry the emergence of a unipolar world dominated by the United States. They lay claim to a sphere of influence that encompasses most of the Eastern Hemisphere. The National Security Concept, for example, names Europe, the Trans-Caucasus, Central Asia, the Asia-Pacific region, and the Middle East as spheres of influence for Russia. It also names the expanding NATO alliance as a danger to the Russian homeland and condemns the use of force by NATO under U.S. leadership as both a violation of international law and a dangerous security trend.

    More important, for the first time since the end of the Cold War, the Kremlin calls the United States a major threat to the Russian state. This represents a radical departure from Yeltsin's foreign policy documents, which proclaimed that Russia has no external enemies and that the main danger to the Russian state stems from such domestic concerns as crime, corruption, and political extremism.

    The National Security Doctrine broadly defines threats to the Russian state, including the establishment of foreign military bases in proximity to Russian borders. Not only does it warn against proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and their delivery systems, but it envisages the first use of nuclear weapons by Russia if it is attacked by non-nuclear weapons of mass destruction, such as chemical warheads or biological weapons, or by an overwhelming conventional force.
    That last statement was indeed interesting. It means that if that doctrine is current, that Russia will respond with nuclear weapons if it is attacked by an overwhelming conventional force. I am sure it has the United States in mind here.

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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Some more interesting stuff from another 2001 piece

    An independent and democratic Ukraine is important to U.S. policy in Eastern Europe. A robust Ukraine can help to deny Russia, which is becoming more nationalist and authoritarian, direct access to the borders of East Central Europe, including NATO members Hungary and Poland, as well as Southeastern Europe and the Balkans. Ukraine also controls the strategic northern coast of the Black Sea, which is adjacent to NATO ally Turkey.

    An independent and democratic Ukraine is also crucial to Russia's future. Reintegrating Ukraine, with its 50 million citizens, into a Russian superstate would contribute to the emergence of a quasi-imperial and undemocratic Great Russia. Russian empire-builders in the military and national security community have openly proclaimed the need to establish hegemony in Ukraine in the context of the zero-sum nature of Russian-American confrontation. Russia would like to deny the U.S. and Western Europe political influence in the former Soviet Union.

    For over 200 years, Ukraine and the Crimea have been the base from which Russia has threatened the Turkish Straits. From Ukraine, Russia launched the four partitions of Poland in the 18th and 20th centuries. Ukraine's integration into a Russian superstate would quash all hopes for a Western-oriented, democratic Eastern Slavic state and create new dividing lines in Europe. It would then be only a matter of time until an enlarged Russia reverted to its historically assertive pattern of behavior in the region.

    The situation in Ukraine also makes it essential to bolster the sovereignty of the New Independent States (NIS), which have come under pressure from Moscow as a result of their internal political and economic weakness, in addition to their dependence on Russia for energy. Other importers of Russian energy in the region, such as Georgia, are in a similar position.

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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Here's from 2010

    A stable Ukraine enhances stability and security in the Black Sea region and Central and Eastern Europe, thwarting Russian desires to carve out a “sphere of influence” in those areas
    Yanukovych’s election brings the country to a crossroad. Ukraine now has three choices: a Euro-Atlantic orientation, neutrality, or a pro-Russian stance. Only the first option truly satisfies Ukrainian, U.S., and European interests, but significant obstacles abound.

    Germany, France, and Italy do not want to sacrifice their close economic relations with Russia for Ukrainian security and the nation’s full European integration. Western European countries’ de facto veto of Ukraine’s EU and NATO membership and lukewarm response to Russia’s heavy handedness in the 2008 Georgian War also reflect a lack of European resolve.

    Furthermore, Yanukovych has repeatedly declared that Ukraine should stay politically neutral and may be unlikely to bring Ukraine into NATO. With 51 percent of Ukrainians viewing NATO unfavorably, the country’s path to NATO membership is unclear.

    The presence of the Russian Black Sea Fleet at a naval base in Sevastopol (in the Crimea, which has been Ukrainian territory since 1954) until 2017 also impedes Ukraine’s accession to NATO. There is no precedent for a NATO member hosting a non-NATO member military base.

    Finally, Russia encourages separatism in the Ukrainian-controlled Crimea. Nationalist politicians such as Yuri Luzhkov, the mayor of Moscow, and Konstantin Zatulin, an imperialist member of the Duma, have called for Russian annexation of the Crimea. Similar to the measures the Russian Federation undertook in Abkhazia in the run-up to the Georgia War, Moscow distributes Russian passports to Russian-speakers, is behind many land acquisitions in the Crimea, and is meddling in Sevastopol politics to try to get a pro-Russian mayor elected.

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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I know I may be beating this in the ground, but I want this point to be made clear:

    THE PROMOTION OF DEMOCRACY IN UKRAINE IS A TOOL BY WHICH THE UNITED STATES SEEKS TO KEEP UKRAINE OUT THE RUSSIAN SPHERE OF INFLUENCE AND TO MAINTAIN A SUSTAINABLE WESTERN ORIENTATION THERE. IN OTHER WORDS, DEMOCRACY IS A MEANS TO THE END OF KEEPING UKRAINE AWAY FROM RUSSIA AND WITH THE WEST. IT IS NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

    Again, recall



    This is how US foreign policy in Ukraine should be properly understood. Then everything becomes clear.
    Your opinion is noted....
    Meanwhile....

    Some people actually want Freedom

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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I am sorry I am having to break this up into two parts, but I think it is important that we educate ourselves here so we can talk about the matter in an intelligent, real sense.

    So let's look further. Again, this is the same person's thoughts



    Because it has been said twice, we can see the emphasis that this person feels on keeping Ukraine out of Russia's sphere of influence and sustaining a pro-Western influence.

    How does he purpose that this be done, in the real sense?



    So, the 5 billion dollars went to these places, that this person mentioned in 2001. Please remember, THE MONEY WENT TO KEEP UKRAINE OUT OF RUSSIA'S SPHERE OF INFLUENCE AND TO SUSTAIN A PRO-WESTERN ORIENTATION THERE.
    Russia is the only one doing anything. They pay people to kill Ukranians. Pretty sick sh*$

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