View Poll Results: Did the USA cause the Ukraine Crisis.

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Thread: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202013.

  1. #41
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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    As I have said before, the world of real foreign policy is not the rah rah world of CNN and Fox News. This is the real world in which real nations that have substantial power, such as Russia and the United States, attempt to exert their influence so as to achieve what they feel are their foreign policy objectives.

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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I don't know if you are really serious, but just so no one is confused, the 5 billion dollars that the Assistant Secretary of State of the United States is referring to is the total amount that has been spent over the years since Ukrainian independence.
    $5 billion in foreign aid spread out over 14 years to a huge country in a strategically important location is a pittance.

    The US has remitted almost $4 billion to tiny Haiti in just the last 5 years.


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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    $5 billion in foreign aid spread out over 14 years to a huge country in a strategically important location is a pittance.

    The US has remitted almost $4 billion to tiny Haiti in just the last 5 years.
    The point is what is the motivation. The motivation is that the US perceives that their interests in Ukraine are keeping it out of the Russian sphere of influence and sustaining a western orientation there so as to obstruct the rise of Russian influence in the world. That is the point.

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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Yeah, but he said this to MS.

    That's ok, but there is a saying that fools rush in where angels fear to tread. If you had not noticed, what is going on in Ukraine is of interest to me. As such, I have put a lot of thought into the matter. One of the conclusions that I have reached is that with regards to it's foreign policy in Ukraine, the US is singing from a hymnal that has been strongly influenced by Ariel Cohen. I have been reading Mr Cohen's work, and while it is impressive and has it's merits, I feel there is a major flaw. In my late teens I used to play chess quite a bit. I thought, at that time, that I was pretty good at it. I remember once suffering a very humiliating defeat. I had been reading about the hyper-modern school of chess theory, and as it was something new to me, I was eager to try it out on an opponent. I was so absorbed in the theory in my mind that I did not look properly at what was happening on the board and made a very stupid mistake that ordinarily I would not make. In my opinion, Mr Cohen is too lost in his theory, and is overlooking a very important point. He is not looking at the board properly.

    Henry Kissinger was the principal architect of US strategy of containment of the Soviet Union. As such, I don't think it would be accurate to characterize his views with regards to Russia as timid. Mr Kissinger, in recent US Congressional testimony voiced the following concern with regards to arming Ukraine:

    I believe we should avoid taking incremental steps before we know how far we are willing to go. This is a territory 300 miles from Moscow and therefore has special security implications.
    Mr Cohen is not properly looking at the board. Russia is a nuclear armed state that has the capability to destroy the US. We need to remember that.
    Last edited by MildSteel; 01-31-15 at 12:35 PM.

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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The point is what is the motivation. The motivation is that the US perceives that their interests in Ukraine are keeping it out of the Russian sphere of influence and sustaining a western orientation there so as to obstruct the rise of Russian influence in the world. That is the point.
    Then your point is the obvious. All global powers do this. China also spends billions in all quarters of the globe to accrue influence and effect behavior.


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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    JFK defeated Richard Nixon in 1960 with just a 0.1% edge. US and world history would be vastly different if democracy awarded victory to "quite a few" at the expense of the majority.

    You seem to always ignore the fact that the - clear majority - in Ukraine wish closer ties with the West. This sentiment was factually established with the 2014 Ukraine presidential/legislative elections in which pro-Europe candidates/parties won sweeping electoral victories over pro-Russia opposition blocs. The lopsided and indisputable election results amount to a mandate from the majority of Ukrainian citizens.
    Well, all that can be said is you're full of crap. First how many of possible registered actually voted? Was it like 39%? What percentage of this minimal percentage of possible voters did Poroshenko receive? 30%? So your mandate is about 30% of 39% or roughly 12% of eligible voters. Wowser! Now that's simply a lie to refer to that as a mandate. The only thing lopsided about the election results is that most people didn't vote.

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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    $5 billion in foreign aid spread out over 14 years to a huge country in a strategically important location is a pittance.

    The US has remitted almost $4 billion to tiny Haiti in just the last 5 years.
    Oleg Tuarov (sic). a deputy of the Ukrainian Parliament stated before the Maidan that the USA embassy
    was conspiring an overthrow referred to as "volya". He stated this publicly to the assembly. The co-
    consporators kept this speech under the radar. The same Mr. Tuarog ran in opposition to Poroshenko and
    was publicly beaten and hospitalized, but I guess that must just be democracy, or not. The US Embassy
    coup was successful, so either Tuarog is a great soothsayer or his exact information was correct, My only
    point is that it is well known in Ukraine that the coup was implemented with great assistance from the US
    Embassy and the CIA. What's the reason that you don't know that when you insinuate such vast knowledge
    regarding Ukraine?

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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Well, all that can be said is you're full of crap. First how many of possible registered actually voted? Was it like 39%? What percentage of this minimal percentage of possible voters did Poroshenko receive? 30%? So your mandate is about 30% of 39% or roughly 12% of eligible voters. Wowser! Now that's simply a lie to refer to that as a mandate. The only thing lopsided about the election results is that most people didn't vote.
    No Dave. As usual, you're the one full of toilet flotsam...

    Presidential elections were held in Ukraine on 25 May 2014, resulting in Petro Poroshenko being elected President of Ukraine. The Central Election Commission reported voter turnout at over 60% excluding those regions not under government control.
    Wikipedia - Ukrainian presidential election 2014


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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Oleg Tuarov (sic). a deputy of the Ukrainian Parliament stated before the Maidan that the USA embassy
    was conspiring an overthrow referred to as "volya". He stated this publicly to the assembly. The co-
    consporators kept this speech under the radar. The same Mr. Tuarog ran in opposition to Poroshenko and
    was publicly beaten and hospitalized, but I guess that must just be democracy, or not. The US Embassy
    coup was successful, so either Tuarog is a great soothsayer or his exact information was correct, My only
    point is that it is well known in Ukraine that the coup was implemented with great assistance from the US
    Embassy and the CIA. What's the reason that you don't know that when you insinuate such vast knowledge
    regarding Ukraine?
    Oleg Anatolyevich Tsarov (Олег Анатольевич Царёв) is a Dnipropetrovsk businessman and politician. In 2006 he was elected to the Ukraine parliament (MP) on the Party of Regions (political party of Viktor Yanukovych) ticket. He was expelled from the PoR party on 7 April 2014 and is now the leader of Novorossiya, which is a separatist organization in eastern Ukraine. He is currently under indictment and charged with promoting and inciting violence in eastern Ukraine.

    Lol. Your conspiracy source is... far less than reputable.


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    Repeal and Replace Trump.

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    Re: Must Watch: Ukranian Deputy: US to stage a civil war in Ukraine! This was 11/202

    Quote Originally Posted by Simpleχity View Post
    No Dave. As usual, you're the one full of toilet flotsam...



    Serious question: Are village/town/city councils still called soviets?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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