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Americans in the US territories not being permitted to vote for POTUS

Americans in the US territories not being permitted to vote for POTUS

  • Honestly, my answer would be based on how it benefits my party/political outcomes.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Leave it the way it is. No vote for POTUS in the territories.

    Votes: 6 30.0%
  • Let the territories form their own winner takes all EC delegation

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • Let each territory be assigned by lottery a state with which they vote each Presidential election

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • End the Electoral College. Direct vote for President by all citizens regardless of where they live

    Votes: 12 60.0%

  • Total voters
    20
We've been having a spirited discussion on Americans living in the US territories barred from voting in presidential elections. As an FYI, they do vote in the primaries.

By way of background, the constitution gives the power to elect the potus via the electoral college to the states, very likely do to the thinking that average Americans were too ill-informed to cast an informed ballot for such an important position. With advances in mass news media, over time every state transitioned from having the state legislatures pick their electoral college delegates to holding general elections in each state. Since the constitution does not specify how each state should select their electoral college delegates, there was no need to amend the constitution.

Inadvertently left out of the process were residents of Washington, DC and the US territories since they do not live in a state. It wasn't until 1961 that Washingtonians finally got to vote for president. This anomaly does not apply to Americans born in the US territories, only Americans who live in the US territories. If a Puerto Rican moves to Orlando, he instantly becomes eligible to vote in Florida elections. However, if a Texan moves to Puerto Rico he instantly loses his right to vote in presidential elections but votes instead for the mayor of San Juan, governor of Puerto Rico, the Puerto Rico delegate to Congress in Washington and the Puerto Rico legislature. An even greater anomaly is if a New Yorker moves to Pakistan, he gets to vote for President of the United States by mail. Only Americans living in the US territories are banned from voting for president.

In your view, what is the best way to address this oddity?

If the people in the terrirtories want to become states, then they need to lobby to become states. However the amount of benefits they receive outweighs the costs, and therefore they aren't doing it. Puerto Rico has been wrestling with this situation for decades.
 
If you agree with the link, then you should be able to argue the points inside effectively. If you don't feel like doing that, ok fine, but I don't know how you can take much of a stand.

As far as I can recall, the FF weren't necessarily big on political parties, so I don't think you are necessarily sided with the FF on that issue.

You think you're being real clever by finding one single point that SOME mind not all FF's didn't like, and with that contortion you think you can throw out the rest of the link. And it's plainly obvious that not all FF's were against parties, SINCE THEY FORM THEM. FAIL, and end of discussion.
 
You think you're being real clever by finding one single point that SOME mind not all FF's didn't like, and with that contortion you think you can throw out the rest of the link. And it's plainly obvious that not all FF's were against parties, SINCE THEY FORM THEM. FAIL, and end of discussion.

I'm discussing an argument in your link. Is there another part you'd like to reference? Do you even know what's in the link? So far, you've added nothing to this thread.

Congrats.
 
Im for getting rid of the electoral college- its a silly way to determine who wins when it should be by popular vote instead. The country virtually ground to a halt during the 2000 elections.
 
none of the above
I find it to be excessively hard to believe that this is true !
 
I'm sure of it. The exception would be if you moved to one of the territories and choose to not to become a legal resident and vote absentee back in the states. This would be very difficult to do over the long term because you could not get a local driver's license. That would affect your ability to get auto insurance, enroll your kids in school and your ability work. I imagine you could do it but would need to be well off enough to maintain two residences; one in the states and another in the territory. However, even if you could pull it off, the American citizens born there and have lived there all their lives would have no stateside address from which they could vote absentee. They have to sign up for selective service, maybe get drafted into the US military but can't vote for president.

I have no reason to doubt you, but something just seems wrong. Maybe not. Those ex-pat living in foreign countries maintain their citizenship and as such are allowed to vote. I just find it hard to believe if I moved from Georgia to Guam I would lose my voting rights. Especially if I did not renounce my U.S. citizenship.

IT very well could be, as a resident of Georgia and a U.S. citizen I can vote for president. Maybe not as a U.S. citizen from the territory of Guam if Guam was my residence. It all seems so strange and weird.
 
We've been having a spirited discussion on Americans living in the US territories barred from voting in presidential elections. As an FYI, they do vote in the primaries.

By way of background, the constitution gives the power to elect the potus via the electoral college to the states, very likely do to the thinking that average Americans were too ill-informed to cast an informed ballot for such an important position. With advances in mass news media, over time every state transitioned from having the state legislatures pick their electoral college delegates to holding general elections in each state. Since the constitution does not specify how each state should select their electoral college delegates, there was no need to amend the constitution.

Inadvertently left out of the process were residents of Washington, DC and the US territories since they do not live in a state. It wasn't until 1961 that Washingtonians finally got to vote for president. This anomaly does not apply to Americans born in the US territories, only Americans who live in the US territories. If a Puerto Rican moves to Orlando, he instantly becomes eligible to vote in Florida elections. However, if a Texan moves to Puerto Rico he instantly loses his right to vote in presidential elections but votes instead for the mayor of San Juan, governor of Puerto Rico, the Puerto Rico delegate to Congress in Washington and the Puerto Rico legislature. An even greater anomaly is if a New Yorker moves to Pakistan, he gets to vote for President of the United States by mail. Only Americans living in the US territories are banned from voting for president.

In your view, what is the best way to address this oddity?

Washington DC being an exception, the territories should not be voting.
 
The electoral college makes no sense to me anyway.

the EC was created to prevent democracy in america....the founders hate democratic forms of government.

our government was created to have the House elected by the people, the senate elected by the state legislatures who are elected by the people, and the president elected by electors.....who are elected by the people, this creates what is known as a true... Republic.
 

Because they're not American states with the same access and responsibilities of American states, nor do they have congressional representation.
 
I have no reason to doubt you, but something just seems wrong. Maybe not. Those ex-pat living in foreign countries maintain their citizenship and as such are allowed to vote. I just find it hard to believe if I moved from Georgia to Guam I would lose my voting rights. Especially if I did not renounce my U.S. citizenship.

IT very well could be, as a resident of Georgia and a U.S. citizen I can vote for president. Maybe not as a U.S. citizen from the territory of Guam if Guam was my residence. It all seems so strange and weird.


Don't take my word for it..

The defendants, "agree that citizens of the United States living in the U.S. Virgin Islands deserve every right and privilege that is afforded to any other U.S. citizen under the constitution," according to the government's answer filed in Superior Court on St. Thomas.

Judge to hear V.I. case for right to vote in federal elections - News - Virgin Islands Daily News

Puerto Rico held its Republican primary on March 19. Puerto Ricans are full citizens of the United States, but as a consequence of living in Puerto Rico, have no voting rights for the U.S. President or for the U.S. Congress –

FairVote.org | Puerto Rico and Other Territories Vote in Primaries, But Not in General Election


Although territories like Puerto Rico can hold primaries and caucuses to select delegates for the parties' conventions, the 4 million U.S. citizens living there cannot vote in the general election.
In U.S. Territories, Voting for President Remains Distant Goal - Los Angeles Times
 
Don't take my word for it..

The defendants, "agree that citizens of the United States living in the U.S. Virgin Islands deserve every right and privilege that is afforded to any other U.S. citizen under the constitution," according to the government's answer filed in Superior Court on St. Thomas.

Judge to hear V.I. case for right to vote in federal elections - News - Virgin Islands Daily News

Puerto Rico held its Republican primary on March 19. Puerto Ricans are full citizens of the United States, but as a consequence of living in Puerto Rico, have no voting rights for the U.S. President or for the U.S. Congress –

FairVote.org | Puerto Rico and Other Territories Vote in Primaries, But Not in General Election


Although territories like Puerto Rico can hold primaries and caucuses to select delegates for the parties' conventions, the 4 million U.S. citizens living there cannot vote in the general election.
In U.S. Territories, Voting for President Remains Distant Goal - Los Angeles Times

Perhaps it has something to do with becoming a state. Any of these territories could held a referendum and request to become a state. The fact they choose not too relegates them to the no vote status. Seems to me we went to war over taxes without representation.
 
Perhaps it has something to do with becoming a state. Any of these territories could held a referendum and request to become a state. The fact they choose not too relegates them to the no vote status. Seems to me we went to war over taxes without representation.

See posts 3, 4 and 5.

They file the same 1040s each April 15 at the same rates and deductions as those on the mainland except it gets sent the territorial governments and operates as a type of state income tax. Under US tax law, the IRS deducts whatever tax an American pays elsewhere from what you owe to Uncle Sam.

If an American lives in Brazil and pays 10% of their income in taxes to the Brazilian government but also owes 15% in taxes on "worldwide income" to the IRS, he may deduct the 10% he paid to Brazil and will only owe 5% to Uncle Sam after doing the math. That's the law. This American citizen is allowed to vote in US elections by absentee ballot. If an American pays 20% in tax to the Swedish government but owes Uncle Sam just 10%, the 20% he paid to Sweden is credited toward he US tax bill. He won't get reimbursed the difference but will owe Washington nothing. The American citizen living in Sweden does not forfeit the American citizenship nor will they not be allowed to vote for President...and paid nothing in federal taxes.

Since the territorial tax and the federal tax is 100% identical using the same exact form, rates and deductions, its means 100% deductible and cancels out the amount owed to Uncle Sam to the penny. All the formality of filing would do is create needless paperwork for both the taxpayer and the IRS staff. The IRS knows this and therefore does not require duplicate forms to be filed as in effect, the tax paid to the territorial cancels out whatever is owed to Washington.
 
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