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Americans in the US territories not being permitted to vote for POTUS

Americans in the US territories not being permitted to vote for POTUS

  • Honestly, my answer would be based on how it benefits my party/political outcomes.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Leave it the way it is. No vote for POTUS in the territories.

    Votes: 6 30.0%
  • Let the territories form their own winner takes all EC delegation

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • Let each territory be assigned by lottery a state with which they vote each Presidential election

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • End the Electoral College. Direct vote for President by all citizens regardless of where they live

    Votes: 12 60.0%

  • Total voters
    20

Smeagol

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We've been having a spirited discussion on Americans living in the US territories barred from voting in presidential elections. As an FYI, they do vote in the primaries.

By way of background, the constitution gives the power to elect the potus via the electoral college to the states, very likely do to the thinking that average Americans were too ill-informed to cast an informed ballot for such an important position. With advances in mass news media, over time every state transitioned from having the state legislatures pick their electoral college delegates to holding general elections in each state. Since the constitution does not specify how each state should select their electoral college delegates, there was no need to amend the constitution.

Inadvertently left out of the process were residents of Washington, DC and the US territories since they do not live in a state. It wasn't until 1961 that Washingtonians finally got to vote for president. This anomaly does not apply to Americans born in the US territories, only Americans who live in the US territories. If a Puerto Rican moves to Orlando, he instantly becomes eligible to vote in Florida elections. However, if a Texan moves to Puerto Rico he instantly loses his right to vote in presidential elections but votes instead for the mayor of San Juan, governor of Puerto Rico, the Puerto Rico delegate to Congress in Washington and the Puerto Rico legislature. An even greater anomaly is if a New Yorker moves to Pakistan, he gets to vote for President of the United States by mail. Only Americans living in the US territories are banned from voting for president.

In your view, what is the best way to address this oddity?
 
We've been having a spirited discussion on Americans living in the US territories barred from voting in presidential elections. As an FYI, they do vote in the primaries.

By way of background, the constitution gives the power to elect the potus via the electoral college to the states, very likely do to the thinking that average Americans were too ill-informed to cast an informed ballot for such an important position. With advances in mass news media, over time every state transitioned from having the state legislatures pick their electoral college delegates to holding general elections in each state. Since the constitution does not specify how each state should select their electoral college delegates, there was no need to amend the constitution.

Inadvertently left out of the process were residents of Washington, DC and the US territories since they do not live in a state. It wasn't until 1961 that Washingtonians finally got to vote for president. This anomaly does not apply to Americans born in the US territories, only Americans who live in the US territories. If a Puerto Rican moves to Orlando, he instantly becomes eligible to vote in Florida elections. However, if a Texan moves to Puerto Rico he instantly loses his right to vote in presidential elections but votes instead for the mayor of San Juan, governor of Puerto Rico, the Puerto Rico delegate to Congress in Washington and the Puerto Rico legislature. An even greater anomaly is if a New Yorker moves to Pakistan, he gets to vote for President of the United States by mail. Only Americans living in the US territories are banned from voting for president.

In your view, what is the best way to address this oddity?

The issue certainly reveals the fact that it is, once again, a problem created by legislative malfeasance and we are expecting the same legislative legerdemain to solve the problem. When pigs fly, as they say.
 
Let's take a poll in the territories:

Do you want to be able to vote in the Electoral College if it means that you have to pay Federal Income tax?
 
Let's take a poll in the territories:

Do you want to be able to vote in the Electoral College if it means that you have to pay Federal Income tax?

I just emailed an accountant friend who lives in a US territory that question. It dawned on me, that could actually be a net win financially for the people there somewhat similar to ministers' tax rules on tax deductions but with tax deductions and tax credits. She's a tax accountant so I'll let her bring it up and will pass it on if I'm right.
 
Just heard from my tax accountant friend. She says in so many words and if I understood her, Uncle Sam gives tax credits for taxes paid elsewhere and since the territorial tax is 100% identical to the federal tax rates, deductions and credits; the federal tax will cancel out and will result in no additional tax, although the hassle filing an additional 1040 form would need to be happen. Americans living in Pakistan, for example, are under these same tax rules right now and they do vote for President by mail. I presume the reason they have to file is because the tax rates, deductions and credits in Pakistan or wherever are not 100% identical to those in the US.
 
An American citizen should be able to vote in every federal election. The electoral college makes no sense to me anyway.
 
The idea of giving a state the votes of a territory as a result of a arbitrary assignment is horrible. I would have to know the procedure for how a US citizen can vote while living in a foreign country, as was mentioned above, before I make a judgement on how to proceed.
 
We've been having a spirited discussion on Americans living in the US territories barred from voting in presidential elections. As an FYI, they do vote in the primaries.

By way of background, the constitution gives the power to elect the potus via the electoral college to the states, very likely do to the thinking that average Americans were too ill-informed to cast an informed ballot for such an important position. With advances in mass news media, over time every state transitioned from having the state legislatures pick their electoral college delegates to holding general elections in each state. Since the constitution does not specify how each state should select their electoral college delegates, there was no need to amend the constitution.

Inadvertently left out of the process were residents of Washington, DC and the US territories since they do not live in a state. It wasn't until 1961 that Washingtonians finally got to vote for president. This anomaly does not apply to Americans born in the US territories, only Americans who live in the US territories. If a Puerto Rican moves to Orlando, he instantly becomes eligible to vote in Florida elections. However, if a Texan moves to Puerto Rico he instantly loses his right to vote in presidential elections but votes instead for the mayor of San Juan, governor of Puerto Rico, the Puerto Rico delegate to Congress in Washington and the Puerto Rico legislature. An even greater anomaly is if a New Yorker moves to Pakistan, he gets to vote for President of the United States by mail. Only Americans living in the US territories are banned from voting for president.

In your view, what is the best way to address this oddity?

It work quite well as is. Why fix it?
 
We've been having a spirited discussion on Americans living in the US territories barred from voting in presidential elections. As an FYI, they do vote in the primaries.

By way of background, the constitution gives the power to elect the potus via the electoral college to the states, very likely do to the thinking that average Americans were too ill-informed to cast an informed ballot for such an important position. With advances in mass news media, over time every state transitioned from having the state legislatures pick their electoral college delegates to holding general elections in each state. Since the constitution does not specify how each state should select their electoral college delegates, there was no need to amend the constitution.

Inadvertently left out of the process were residents of Washington, DC and the US territories since they do not live in a state. It wasn't until 1961 that Washingtonians finally got to vote for president. This anomaly does not apply to Americans born in the US territories, only Americans who live in the US territories. If a Puerto Rican moves to Orlando, he instantly becomes eligible to vote in Florida elections. However, if a Texan moves to Puerto Rico he instantly loses his right to vote in presidential elections but votes instead for the mayor of San Juan, governor of Puerto Rico, the Puerto Rico delegate to Congress in Washington and the Puerto Rico legislature. An even greater anomaly is if a New Yorker moves to Pakistan, he gets to vote for President of the United States by mail. Only Americans living in the US territories are banned from voting for president.

In your view, what is the best way to address this oddity?

Although it's a little gimmicky, I like your idea of a lottery where the territories get assigned to a different state every four years and their votes get added into that states votes for that Presidential election only. It would create some interesting dynamics, depending on the toss up potential of the state they're assigned to.

I do agree, however, that every American citizen should have the right to cast his/her vote for the leader of the nation.
 
Just heard from my tax accountant friend. She says in so many words and if I understood her, Uncle Sam gives tax credits for taxes paid elsewhere and since the territorial tax is 100% identical to the federal tax rates, deductions and credits; the federal tax will cancel out and will result in no additional tax, although the hassle filing an additional 1040 form would need to be happen. Americans living in Pakistan, for example, are under these same tax rules right now and they do vote for President by mail. I presume the reason they have to file is because the tax rates, deductions and credits in Pakistan or wherever are not 100% identical to those in the US.

Puerto Ricans (and those citizens from any other territory) also vote as long as they live in a state. I don't believe that the rates are the same in all territories
 
An American citizen should be able to vote in every federal election. The electoral college makes no sense to me anyway.

They can, as long as they live in a state. Even if you could navigate a path that would do away with the Electoral College, those living in territories could still not vote for President. That would take yet another amendment.
 
The idea of giving a state the votes of a territory as a result of a arbitrary assignment is horrible. I would have to know the procedure for how a US citizen can vote while living in a foreign country, as was mentioned above, before I make a judgement on how to proceed.
You cannot vote if you reside In a foreign country. If you reside in the states and are in a foreign country you can vote absentee

If you live in Washington state and take a job that's temporary residing in canada, you can vote on your Washington address. If you retire and buy a house in canada and become a permanent resident you can no longer legally vote in WA
 
An American citizen should be able to vote in every federal election. The electoral college makes no sense to me anyway.

Maybe because you don't understand it. Maybe you didn't realize that the federal govt was never set up to govern YOU, but to govern the states. Not only have we bastardized the education of our citizenry in to believing popular vote is the cure to all election evils, but they don't even understand the purpose of the union to begin with. The states existed before the union, not the union before the states. The two houses in Congress represent the states, that's why the representatives are divided up by states. Furthermore it was never intended that you vote DIRECTLY for the President. The Founders knew exactly what they were trying to do, it wasn't random.
 
The idea of giving a state the votes of a territory as a result of a arbitrary assignment is horrible. I would have to know the procedure for how a US citizen can vote while living in a foreign country, as was mentioned above, before I make a judgement on how to proceed.

They vote absentee (by mail) with the last state they lived in before moving overseas.
 
Maybe because you don't understand it. Maybe you didn't realize that the federal govt was never set up to govern YOU, but to govern the states. Not only have we bastardized the education of our citizenry in to believing popular vote is the cure to all election evils, but they don't even understand the purpose of the union to begin with. The states existed before the union, not the union before the states. The two houses in Congress represent the states, that's why the representatives are divided up by states. Furthermore it was never intended that you vote DIRECTLY for the President. The Founders knew exactly what they were trying to do, it wasn't random.

American... the electoral vote and the popular vote are almost always going to coincide. Explain to me how using popular vote vs electoral college changes the way the federal government governs.
 
American... the electoral vote and the popular vote are almost always going to coincide. Explain to me how using popular vote vs electoral college changes the way the federal government governs.

Obviously you didn't read the link.
 
Why don't they vote like any expat?

Because they want to vote for President. They live in America under US laws. They use US currency. Their national guard units get called up to fight in the Middle East just like those in Iowa and Oregon. Why not?
 
Obviously you didn't read the link.

I'm not sure why this is a pro (nor did you reply to me and I don't really appreciate being given homework either):

"contributes to the political stability of the nation by encouraging a two-party system"

But, I can see some value in this attribute:

"contributes to the cohesiveness of the country by requiring a distribution of popular support to be elected president"

However, aren't electorates still greatly based off of population? Isn't the use of electorates really having the opposite effect? In that I mean, there is a ridiculous two-party system, where a large percentage of states are always going to go one way or another. That means, even if another candidate runs a great campaign, gets a lot of swing voters, and even converts a few closer to center from the other party, he/she still is getting almost no votes from those states.

If Jesus came back right now, ran as a liberal, he could get 49% of the vote in Mississippi (which would be a miracle for a liberal), and still get no electoral votes for Mississippi. And that would work the opposite, obviously, for a conservative and California, say.
 
Because they want to vote for President. They live in America under US laws. They use US currency. Their national guard units get called up to fight in the Middle East just like those in Iowa and Oregon. Why not?

They live in territories, I thought.
 
They live in territories, I thought.

True, but under a system when written did not anticipate regular citizens ever being allowed to vote for President. Over time that's what we now have but due to the original thinking that regular American citizens would never Participate in Presidential elections, those living in the territories are denied a level of voting rights no other Americans are denied. Meanwhile they can still be sent to war to fight and even die for their country. In the 1900s they were even drafted into the armed forces back when we had the draft.
 
True, but under a system when written did not anticipate regular citizens ever being allowed to vote for President. Over time that's what we now have but due to the original thinking that regular American citizens would never Participate in Presidential elections, those living in the territories are denied a level of voting rights no other Americans are denied. Meanwhile they can still be sent to war to fight and even die for their country. In the 1900s they were even drafted into the armed forces back when we had the draft.

Why can't they vote like any expat?
 
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