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Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?


  • Total voters
    98
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Correct

I'm certain that none of the sanctimonious posters in this thread were in a tizzy when banks foreclosed on homes and caused families with children to become homeless.

It's business.

i'm pretty damned sanctimonious at times.... and I have a problem with our foreclosure mechanisms and polices.... it's the ethical egoism in me coming out
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

I think she meant read instead of ready.
Yeah as far as I can tell she thinks I can read her mind or something I dunno what the point of her post was

People should just come out and say what they think instead of this sort of game which does nobody any good.

Oh well its time for bed all I suspect will come is some more nudge nudge wink wink you know what I'm really saying from her which provides me no useful info so I will just drop the point
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Except for practical purposes it is $.00 because its impossible to transact

If it was actually zero it wouldn't accumulate to be a considerable amount. For practical purposes and in reality cost is always cost.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Whether it was a loan from a family member like parents or a loan you personally applied for through a lending agency, heck yes you should feel morally responsible to pay the money back.. Doesn't matter what the curcumstances, what you borrow you should feel obliged to pay back. If you don't, you are a worthless piece of dung for taking what you needed at the time at a cost to another.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

If it was actually zero it wouldn't accumulate to be a considerable amount. For practical purposes and in reality cost is always cost.
And practical purposes is what we see at the cash register so that's what actually matters
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Wat??

I think I know what your saying as as far as I can tell you are trying to imply I secretly see things your way. Oh well I guess I won't get my answer this day

Oh no. No.

I do NOT think that you secretly see things as I do.

Please be clear on that.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Oh no. No.

I do NOT think that you secretly see things as I do.

Please be clear on that.
Then why do you accuse me of secretly feeling so!e guilt or trying to avoid some guilt? Why can't you accept I gave you my honest reasoning? Why do you play some game instead?
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

i'm pretty damned sanctimonious at times.... and I have a problem with our foreclosure mechanisms and polices.... it's the ethical egoism in me coming out

I also have some problems with the process, but my objections are based on national interest not morality.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Then why do you accuse me of secretly feeling so!e guilt or trying to avoid some guilt? Why can't you accept I gave you my honest reasoning? Why do you play some game instead?

Oh, only because you were not saying so. You were publicly and proudly justifying your perspective. But lots of things can be fueling that vigorous justification.

And if honest, I probably dont think any differently, lol.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Oh, only because you were not saying so. You were publicly and proudly justifying your perspective. But lots of things can be fueling that vigorous justification.

And if honest, I probably dont think any differently, lol.

To be clear. I am not so enamored by people on an internet forum that I have no personal connection with to say anything but the truth of my perspective. I have no motivation to lie.

You cannot harm me
You hold no power over me
You cannot block access to anything I want
You cannot harm my children or others I care for

In other words I have no reason to fear you and nothing to gain by appeasing you and personal connections do not work well in this medium so I have no motivation in that context either. (And quite frankly what motivates me in life is personal connection or approaching actualization anyway so I hate that I even had to put it in such crude animal terms as fear or appeasement, but it is the clearest language I can muster)

So in essence I use this site to learn what motivates people so that in life I may be more successful in a number of pursuits such as deeper interpersonal relationships, my own emotional quotient, a better understanding of society, even trivial crap such as defending myself in workplace politics, and such as that. If I were to provide anything less than how I see things, then the information I receive in return would be tainted. You can be certain how I state how I feel is how I feel and that it is never personal unless who I am talking is just being an ass (and you do not seem to be an ass but an intelligent and truthful person worthy of respect). So when I appear baffled its because I am as being baffled is a useful vehicle for learning.

I am not trying to deceive you I just want to understand what motivates you. The patterns I see in your reasoning indicate a number of intuitive leaps I am unable to follow and I suspect that this is where you may think I am following as well but default to feeling I am dishonest because I do not follow them. Its a reasoning mistake a lot of people make including myself because it takes a lot of training to recognize when oneself is making that leap and most never receive that training (and to be fair, most people are not smart enough for that training, your use of language indicates that you are smart enough however). When I ask you why, I am trying to dig into that intuition to see what really motivates your morality (where my intuition may be different and thus have a different moral basis and perspective) to

1 understand what you are talking about
2 understand why its important to you
3 see if there is merit in it and thus change my own perspective.

I did not intend this to be an actual argument but an exchange we can learn fro!.

Shall we try again?
 
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Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

To be clear. I am not so enamored by people on an internet forum that I have no personal connection with to say anything but the truth of my perspective. I have no motivation to lie.

You cannot harm me
You hold no power over me
You cannot block access to anything I want
You cannot harm my children or others I care for

In other words I have no reason to fear you and nothing to gain by appeasing you and personal connections do not work well in this medium so I have no motivation in that context either. (And quite frankly what motivates me in life is personal connection or approaching actualization anyway so I hate that I even had to put it in such crude animal terms as fear or appeasement, but it is the clearest language I can muster)

So in essence I use this site to learn what motivates people so that in life I may be more successful in a number of pursuits such as deeper interpersonal relationships, my own emotional quotient, a better understanding of society, even trivial crap such as defending myself in workplace politics, and such as that. If I were to provide anything less than how I see things, then the information I receive in return would be tainted. You can be certain how I state how I feel is how I feel and that it is never personal unless who I am talking is just being an ass (and you do not seem to be an ass but an intelligent and truthful person worthy of respect). So when I appear baffled its because I am as being baffled is a useful vehicle for learning.

I am not trying to deceive you I just want to understand what motivates you. The patterns I see in your reasoning indicate a number of intuitive leaps I am unable to follow and I suspect that this is where you may think I am following as well but default to feeling I am dishonest because I do not follow them. Its a reasoning mistake a lot of people make including myself because it takes a lot of training to recognize when oneself is making that leap and most never receive that training (and to be fair, most people are not smart enough for that training, your use of language indicates that you are smart enough however). When I ask you why, I am trying to dig into that intuition to see what really motivates your morality (where my intuition may be different and thus have a different moral basis and perspective) to

1 understand what you are talking about
2 understand why its important to you
3 see if there is merit in it and thus change my own perspective.

I did not intend this to be an actual argument but an exchange we can learn fro!.

Shall we try again?

Alot more justification IMO.

I wasnt that interested to begin with. I took your statements at (mostly) face value. As I presume you meant them.

In general I find your posts mostly well-balanced.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

You sign a promise to repay (usually with interest). You gave your word*. You then feel no obligation to uphold your word, AND you feel no guilt whatsoever about it.

I think we've stumbled upon what's wrong with society.

tha.jpg

*- Unforeseen dire circumstances not included.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Which they promptly pass on to their other customers :(

Are you saying Bankers don't normally try to make as much money as the can without regard for their customers? You don't know bankers. If they could get more they would do it fines or not. The fines will "hurt" the bankers bonuses a bit. But don't worry they'll get by. They should have went to jail though.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

How can anybody argue you should pay back a loan from a moral stand point???

I don't consider it moral or immoral, but one should repay debt for the sake of their financial wellbeing and credit score. If your house goes into foreclosure, I don't consider you immoral. I would consider your financial stability and credit score to be unfavorable.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

How can anybody argue you should pay back a loan from a moral stand point???

I don't consider it moral or immoral, but one should repay debt for the sake of their financial wellbeing and credit score. If your house goes into foreclosure, I don't consider you immoral. I would consider your financial stability and credit score to be unfavorable.

Because it is keeping your word. Do you think it is moral to say you will pay someone back and never do so?

Obviously situations can make you break your word, but if you never intended to pay the loan back then you deceived the lender into believing you would.
 
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Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

I also have some problems with the process, but my objections are based on national interest not morality.

I'm not even sure how national interest comes into play concerning foreclosures...
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Not paying back a mortgage, while you financially are capable of doing so, simply because you feel the home is no longer worth more than the debt you owe on it is immoral. Not paying back a mortgage when your life situation changes through no fault of your own and you are no longer financially capable of doing so is not immoral.

It was the banks that set the value of the mortgage with their own appraisals and when they closed on the mortgage they agreed to the use of that home for collateral for the value they appraised. This is how mortgages have always been written. That is the reason for "qualifying" buyers and doing their own appraisals, there is a risk if someone defaults. It is not against any law to default on collateralized loan and returning the collateral satisfies the debt. The idea that banks are somehow being "victimized" because of their failure to qualify mortgages and writing "balloon" interest loans in the midst of a housing bubble is preposterous and wrong. The immorality lies totally with the bankers and the billions in fines were just a slap on the wrist. They'd try the whole damn thing again if they could
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

How can anybody argue you should pay back a loan from a moral stand point???

I don't consider it moral or immoral, but one should repay debt for the sake of their financial wellbeing and credit score. If your house goes into foreclosure, I don't consider you immoral. I would consider your financial stability and credit score to be unfavorable.

well, i wouldn't automatically consider a person immoral for defaulting on a loan....but those whom fraudulently take the loan out, or purposefully default even though they have the ability to pay... yeah.. i'd say those were bad people with bad characters... immoral.

I am actually surprised that it's the more left leaning among us who are arguing their is no moral component in this type of business.
which is kinda making me wonder what other types of business are bereft of a moral component... or it is simply "business" as a whole that is amoral.
meh... maybe there's a limit... maybe there's not...... but this has all been an interesting conversation.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

well, i wouldn't automatically consider a person immoral for defaulting on a loan....but those whom fraudulently take the loan out, or purposefully default even though they have the ability to pay... yeah.. i'd say those were bad people with bad characters... immoral.

I am actually surprised that it's the more left leaning among us who are arguing their is no moral component in this type of business.
which is kinda making me wonder what other types of business are bereft of a moral component... or it is simply "business" as a whole that is amoral.
meh... maybe there's a limit... maybe there's not...... but this has all been an interesting conversation.

Actually, I'm not. Surprised, that is. People on the left are less likely to have respect for business. I'm not sure if it's conscious or subconscious, but I suspect it's something of a "they'll screw me if I don't screw them first" mindset.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

well, i wouldn't automatically consider a person immoral for defaulting on a loan....but those whom fraudulently take the loan out, or purposefully default even though they have the ability to pay... yeah.. i'd say those were bad people with bad characters... immoral.

I am actually surprised that it's the more left leaning among us who are arguing their is no moral component in this type of business.

Liberals have long argued that business men are immoral and at the same time that business is amoral. The human part of the equation somehow affects business and at the same time doesn't affect business. Liberals are not well known for coherent logic and this thread is a good example of it.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Alot more justification IMO.

I wasnt that interested to begin with. I took your statements at (mostly) face value. As I presume you meant them.

In general I find your posts mostly well-balanced.
You finding that to be justification amazes and confuses me.. Oh well I guess we will never bridge the gap of your suspicion. Good bye.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Liberals have long argued that business men are immoral and at the same time that business is amoral. The human part of the equation somehow affects business and at the same time doesn't affect business. Liberals are not well known for coherent logic and this thread is a good example of it.

Speaking of a lack of coherent logic ...

It's simply false that "business is immoral" is a mainstream liberal claim.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Speaking of a lack of coherent logic ...

It's simply false that "business is immoral" is a mainstream liberal claim.

It is on this forum and all over the internet.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

It is on this forum and all over the internet.

I'm sure.

You're definitely more likely to find distrust of business on the left, but the idea that "the left" finds business itself or businessmen as a whole to be immoral is patently untrue.
 
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