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Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?


  • Total voters
    98
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Now, just to be clear, I said small (c) conservative, not Republican, and in the same vein, to be technical, participating in the Republican primary - had he done so - would have been "participating in the democratic primaries", that being small (d) democratic. And no, Trump, being the opportunist that he is, would not have tried to participate in the Democrat primary, with Obama as President - he chose the Republican one because he thought he could be the best of a bad lot.

then we both recognize that this quasi-conservative republican used the bankruptcy laws to avoid corporate financial obligations
the very thing the OP is suggesting is not the case
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Abiding by the terms of a mortgage - and mortgages specify what happens in cases of non-payment - is not "****ing over a corporation"

Nice strawman...

You did say this right?
Sangha said:
If you want to feel morally obligated to a non-corporeal and souless entity, you are free to do so.

Which prompted my response that if you'll **** over a corporation for money as in repayment of a loan, you'll **** over anyone and justify it ... it's not difficult to understand.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

interesting.

I generally base my moral obligations on my own personal values... not the values of those whom I deal with <shrug>

Nonsense.

I'm sure you base some moral decisions on the person and the situation being dealt with.

Take killing people - I'm sure you think there are certain situations and certain people where it's moral to kill them and other situations and people where it's not OK.

Your pretense of moral superiority is laughable because your position is so far removed from morality that you have to argue that morality is completely independent of reality.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Nice strawman...

You did say this right?


Which prompted my response that if you'll **** over a corporation for money as in repayment of a loan, you'll **** over anyone and justify it ... it's not difficult to understand.

And I'll repeat "Abiding by the terms of a mortgage - and mortgages specify what happens in cases of non-payment - is not "****ing over a corporation"
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

The question wasn't just restricted to lending by banks. It was a general statement. What if you borrow 10 grand from your brother in law?

lets turn it around, if you lend your brother in law 10K and he never speaks to you again was it worth the investment?
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

There is nothing immoral about taking a course of action that the lender agreed to when it entered into the contract but there is something profoundly unwise and morally depraved in thinking there's something wrong with making a choice that even the lender agreed you are free to make.

You have an odd sense of morality but not for me to judge - that will be left for those who actually know you to decide.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Nice strawman...

You did say this right?


Which prompted my response that if you'll **** over a corporation for money as in repayment of a loan, you'll **** over anyone and justify it ... it's not difficult to understand.
No there is a huge fundamental difference here, you seem to think his argument is based on emotion when its simply quid pro quo, amoral entities do not deserve moral consideration as morality is fundamentally an agreement made by society for certain behaviors for the mutual benefit of individuals within that society (primarily driven by instinct but social contract also plays a role). If a group foregoes that moral contract then they do not deserve moral consideration in return and therefore are shunted to the lower realm of business thought instead. This so rarely happens among individuals (moral failings are not the same as amoral behaviors) that you cannot simply equate the two scenarios on the basis of feelings like you are implying
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Nonsense.

I'm sure you base some moral decisions on the person the situation is dealing with.

Take killing people - I'm sure you think there are certain situations and certain people where it's moral to kill them and other situations and people where it's not OK.

Your pretense of moral superiority is laughable because your position is so far removed from morality that you have to argue that morality is completely independent of reality.

Someone attacking you is nothing like someone giving you a loan. If the business is immoral has nothing to do with anything we are talking about.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

If I borrowed money from an individual, yes, I feel morally obligated to pay it back.

If I borrowed money from a credit union or local bank, yes, I feel morally obligated to pay it back.

If it is a large corporate bank like Bank of America, no, I feel not one iota of moral obligation to pay it back. I DO pay it back because I don't want to screw up my credit or get sued, but it isn't out of any sense of moral obligation. **** BoA.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

And I'll repeat "Abiding by the terms of a mortgage - and mortgages specify what happens in cases of non-payment - is not "****ing over a corporation"

And I'll repeat, If you'll **** over a corporation for money and justify it, you'll **** over anyone for money and justify it.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

And I'll repeat, If you'll **** over a corporation for money and justify it, you'll **** over anyone for money and justify it.
Post 132
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

No there is a huge fundamental difference here, you seem to think his argument is based on emotion when its simply quid pro quo, amoral entities do not deserve moral consideration as morality is fundamentally an agreement made by society for certain behaviors for the mutual benefit of individuals within that society (primarily driven by instinct but social contract also plays a role). If a group foregoes that moral contract then they do not deserve moral consideration in return. This so rarely happens among individuals (moral failings are not the same as amoral behaviors) that you cannot simply equate the two scenarios on the basis of feelings like you are implying

Then I suppose society can just torture criminals and not have to worry about moral concerns. Really, just because someone is immoral doesn't give you a free pass to do the same.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

No there is a huge fundamental difference here, you seem to think his argument is based on emotion when its simply quid pro quo, amoral entities do not deserve moral consideration as morality is fundamentally an agreement made by society for certain behaviors for the mutual benefit of individuals within that society (primarily driven by instinct but social contract also plays a role). If a group foregoes that moral contract then they do not deserve moral consideration in return and therefore are shunted to the realm of business thought instead. This so rarely happens among individuals (moral failings are not the same as amoral behaviors) that you cannot simply equate the two scenarios on the basis of feelings like you are implying

No, my argument is if you'll do it to a corporation and justify it you'll do it to anyone to justify it. There's no emotion involved.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

I disagree. The fact that we're talking about mortgages given by banks means we're talking about a specific type of agreement - one where both parties understand that non-payment is a possibility and both parties understand and agree that in such a case, foreclosure occurs.

It's all a part of the terms of the contract.

well, as i see it , it really depends on your personal view of holding up your end of the agreement.

whether or not the bank has a moral obligation is irrelevant to me... I don't find it necessary to match or replicate the basis on which they act.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

No there is a huge fundamental difference here, you seem to think his argument is based on emotion when its simply quid pro quo

Exactly

It would be not only foolish, but immoral, to place myself as anything other than an equal to the lender. To do so would place my income, and therefore the well-being of my family at risk just for the conceit of thinking "Oh what a moral person I am!!"

When it comes to business, I expect all parties (ie customers, suppliers, employees, employers, etc) to do what is in their best interests to do and they should expect the same from me.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

then we both recognize that this quasi-conservative republican used the bankruptcy laws to avoid corporate financial obligations
the very thing the OP is suggesting is not the case

I absolutely recognize that Donald Trump is not a moral man in my understanding and definition of the term. I'm not sure the OP was suggesting he was or is, however. There is a distinct difference, in my view, between a personal loan for personal benefit and a business loan for business benefit. It is unquestioned that most new businesses fail and many of them lose borrowed capital as well as personal capital loaned to the new business by those starting it up. A failed business, provided there is no fraud or criminal activity, is not a moral failure and is understood by most capital market lenders.

Failure to succeed is not a moral failure.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

No, my argument is if you'll do it to a corporation and justify it you'll do it to anyone to justify it. There's no emotion involved.
And that argument fails as I already pointed out the fundamental logically difference between a bank and a person
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

And I'll repeat, If you'll **** over a corporation for money and justify it, you'll **** over anyone for money and justify it.

Abiding by the terms of a mortgage - and mortgages specify what happens in cases of non-payment - is not "****ing over a corporation
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Then I suppose society can just torture criminals and not have to worry about moral concerns. Really, just because someone is immoral doesn't give you a free pass to do the same.

Moral failings is not amoral behavior, I already addressed this point. But ultimately my answer to this is not moral based anyway, rehabilitation is the best option for a number of measurable reasons.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Exactly

It would be not only foolish, but immoral, to place myself as anything other than an equal to the lender. To do so would place my income, and therefore the well-being of my family at risk just for the conceit of thinking "Oh what a moral person I am!!"

When it comes to business, I expect all parties (ie customers, suppliers, employees, employers, etc) to do what is in their best interests to do and they should expect the same from me.

So basically I should steal everything and never pay back any loans. Afterall, it's not in my best interest to pay for anything nor is it in my best interest to care about paying back debt.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

well, as i see it , it really depends on your personal view of holding up your end of the agreement.

The agreements terms include non-payment so not paying is not "not holding up your end of the agreement"; It's a part of the agreement.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Exactly

It would be not only foolish, but immoral, to place myself as anything other than an equal to the lender. To do so would place my income, and therefore the well-being of my family at risk just for the conceit of thinking "Oh what a moral person I am!!"

When it comes to business, I expect all parties (ie customers, suppliers, employees, employers, etc) to do what is in their best interests to do and they should expect the same from me.
If those guys choose to be victims, then maybe they learn better at some point.

I'm not placing myself st the mercy of an evil (while a necessary evil for economic functionality, its an evil) if I can help it
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

And I'll repeat "Abiding by the terms of a mortgage - and mortgages specify what happens in cases of non-payment - is not "****ing over a corporation"

That's laughable. Clauses in contracts that indicate consequences for the non-compliance of one or the other of the parties are not options for "abiding" by the contract. From the sounds of it, you're perfectly satisfied to buy a new car, take out a loan to pay for it, drive it off the lot and into a tree totaling it, and then fulfilling your obligation under the contract by letting the bank repossess the totaled car. And that makes you moral in your view. Priceless.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

If you borrow money, do you feel there is a moral obligation to repay the money you borrowed?

Could this possibly be a partisan troll thread?
 
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