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Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    Votes: 91 92.9%

  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    Votes: 7 7.1%
  • Total voters
    98
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
So do a whole lot of liberals. It's not different but for some reason a whole bunch of you want to say that for them it is.
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No...not just liberals...every CEO in charge of corporation as well. I'm sure some of them are conservatives too.

In fact, more affluent individuals had higher rates of strategic defaults. What I feel bad for are individuals that suffer according to rules that aren't present.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

iguanaman said:
Just because you don't know the difference between a SECURED loan and an unsecured loan says more about you intelligence than your lean. Plenty of righties walked away from those predatory loans. Illegal loans that the banks are now paying record fines for writing.
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I know the difference. It's immoral to refuse to pay back either one. The morality of welching on your loan doesn't depend on whether it's secured or not. It depends on you not doing what you said you would do in order to extract money from someone else.

And the "well other guys did it too" crap doesn't make it right. Anyone that walked away from their mortgage when they actually had the means to pay it is immoral and whether they're a "righty" or a "lefty" matters not one little bit. The odd thing is that I don't see any righties on this thread arguing that it's OK to welsh on your loans. I'm only seeing lefties doing that. It's one of the big differences between the way lefties and righties think.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
I know the difference. It's immoral to refuse to pay back either one. The morality of welching on your loan doesn't depend on whether it's secured or not. It depends on you not doing what you said you would do in order to extract money from someone else.

And the "well other guys did it too" crap doesn't make it right. Anyone that walked away from their mortgage when they actually had the means to pay it is immoral and whether they're a "righty" or a "lefty" matters not one little bit. The odd thing is that I don't see any righties on this thread arguing that it's OK to welsh on your loans. I'm only seeing lefties doing that. It's one of the big differences between the way lefties and righties think.
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You're right there is the difference between the leans. Righties would see no reason to admit they walked away and would most likely rail against it anyway. Just like those pro-lifers who run right out and get an abortion for their daughter when she get's "caught". Conservatives have high "principles" but never let them get in the way of doing what's best for them.
 
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Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
The fact that there is a legal obligation to repay does not mean that there isn't also a moral right to repay money that you borrow when you freely agree to the terms of a loan. The law does not supplant morality. More often than not, it is the codification of it.
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"A moral right to repay money?" That might depend on whether or not you have a moral right to borrow in the first place and who protects that right. For instance, if an underage child took out a loan, do his/her parents have a moral right to repay it? Until there was a law preventing the lending to children...yes, they were. Do the lenders have moral rights? Big banks didn't seem to have a moral care with adjustable rate mortgages driving people into bankruptcy. Do you think loan sharks or Payday lenders with 40% interest rates care about morality? My guess is they don't. For that reason we have laws that attempt to protect the interests of both borrowers and lenders just so people can stay moral and not kill each other over a measly dollar.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

iguanaman said:
Your right there is the difference between the leans. Righties would see no reason to admit they walked away and would most likely rail against it anyway. Just like those anti-abortionists who run right out and get an abortion for their daughter when she get's "caught".
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It's convenient to be a liberal because you have the advantage of never being accused of living up to your values. The fact that some righties do just means they fail. If you think it's a great excuse for not having any values at all, well, I suppose everyone has to figure out some way to be comfortable in their own skin.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Cephus said:
Well, if there's one thing that I've learned from this thread, it's that liberals are dicks.
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I learned from this thread that liberals are untrustworthy. I already knew they were dicks.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Moot said:
"A moral right to repay money?" That might depend on whether or not you have a moral right to borrow in the first place and who protects that right. For instance, if an underage child took out a loan, do his/her parents have a moral right to repay it? Until there was a law preventing the lending to children...yes, they were. Do the lenders have moral rights? Big banks didn't seem to have a moral care with adjustable rate mortgages driving people into bankruptcy. Do you think loan sharks or Payday lenders with 40% interest rates care about morality? My guess is they don't. For that reason we have laws that attempt to protect the interests of both borrowers and lenders just so people can stay moral and not kill each other over a measly dollar.
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As Obama has, himself, said, "law is by definition a codification of morality".
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Declan said:
It happens though from time to time, but certainly not common. The more common charges which amount to the same thing are check charges (uttering/larceny) or failure to return rented merchandise. The local police used false pretenses to go after panhandlers with their sob stories until the city code caught up with new laws allowing them just to arrest them for doing it on public property or on private property without the owner's consent. They would go after the "my car is out of gas and I need to get home" types and make them take them to their car with no gas or be arrested.
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although on an un related note, isn't it amazing how many people stuck with no gas never seem to have their car nearby....
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
As Obama has, himself, said, "law is by definition a codification of morality".
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That sounds a lot like "legislating morality." Well, as Obama's mentor, MLK once said...


"Morality cannot be legislated, but behavior can be regulated. Judicial decrees may not change the heart, but they can restrain the heartless.” - MLK
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

EMNofSeattle said:
although on an un related note, isn't it amazing how many people stuck with no gas never seem to have their car nearby....
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They also seem to be "from out of town" but somehow manage to all end up right by my bank or near my grocery store across the parking lot from the liquor store willing to put my order in their EBT in exchange for me giving them cash.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
That was some of the most awesome double-talking rationalization I think I've EVER seen. The agreement isn't the "morality" issue.

Breaking YOUR word for YOUR gain is the morality issue. You act like it's OK to behave in an immoral way as long as the behavior is directed at someone or something that you can claim to be "amoral" in nature. This is, as I said, sociopathic thinking.
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A business contract is not necessarily my words. Two different realms, try again.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
That's what I thought. I see this mentality frequently in liberals. It's a form of sociopathy to think it's OK to lie cheat or steal as long as it's a business instead of a real person that you are stealing from.
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The only sociopathy I see is the right wing belief that incorporeal corporate entities have moral standing.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
Didn't say ONLY liberals. And didn't say liberals fail to pay their debts. I said I FREQUENTLY see the mentality among liberals that it's OK to cheat or steal if it's a business instead of a person. Let that sink in. When you understand what I said, you'll probably agree whether you admit it or not.

In fact, I'm pointing out several examples for you right here in this thread.
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what i failed to see was you pointing out that conservatives frequently fail to pay their debts. i provided a 'sterling' example of THE donald and his frequent forays into bankruptcy court to avoid his corporation(s) paying their just financial obligations
you want to make this morality question one depicting the left as immoral debtors versus the moral conservatives who always fulfill their debt obligations
i am pointing out the bull **** of your argument
not surprising that you resent the truth being placed front and center
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
Justabba...... you paying attention here?

ILOR.... Here's the question I asked: "If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it?"

It makes no difference at all whether it is a bank or an individual. It is no less dishonest to cheat a bank than it is to cheat your next door neighbor. To rationalize that you don't have to do what you agree to do as a condition for receiving money if it's a business instead of a person is precisely what I pointed out to Justabubba that I see frequently among liberals and it is a form of sociopathy.
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Not paying back a mortgage is not "cheating". The consequences of not paying the mortgage are a part of the agreement that both the borrower *and* the lender agreed to.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
Didn't say it was. But how do you explain all the liberals here thinking it NOT IMMORAL to fail to repay a debt that you agreed to repay in good faith? All the people arguing that are liberals. Got an excuse for that?
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Because liberals are smart enough to understand the amorality of business while the moronic right wingers are incapable of anything other than worshipping corporate entities.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Cephus said:
Well, if there's one thing that I've learned from this thread, it's that liberals are dicks.
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I don't really agree... but I did laugh like hell. :lol:
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
If you borrow money, do you feel there is a moral obligation to repay the money you borrowed?
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If at all humanly possible.


However, many lenders should be a little more humane in working with people who are going through a rough time.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

tacomancer said:
There is no splitting hairs, it is ok because its business and business is amoral. If business weren't amoral, people would not be laid off because of stuff like profit margins.
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Those profit margins are what pay for lots of peoples' retirement. Like it or not corporate management has a legal and moral obligation to do right with the assets that the owners of those assets have entrusted in them.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

justabubba said:
what i failed to see was you pointing out that conservatives frequently fail to pay their debts. i provided a 'sterling' example of THE donald and his frequent forays into bankruptcy court to avoid his corporation(s) paying their just financial obligations
you want to make this morality question one depicting the left as immoral debtors versus the moral conservatives who always fulfill their debt obligations
i am pointing out the bull **** of your argument
not surprising that you resent the truth being placed front and center
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I'll be damned if I'd accept Donald Trump as either a conservative or moral. But you're absolutely right about big money people often having the cash and the expertise to game the system to their own financial benefit and that should be wrong in anyone's book.
 
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Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

sangha said:
Because liberals are smart enough to understand the amorality of business while the moronic right wingers are incapable of anything other than worshipping corporate entities.
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The question wasn't just restricted to lending by banks. It was a general statement. What if you borrow 10 grand from your brother in law?
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Gaius46 said:
Those profit margins are what pay for lots of peoples' retirement. Like it or not corporate management has a legal and moral obligation to do right with the assets that the owners of those assets have entrusted in them.
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By "do right" are you referring to the way banks sold mortgages to people they knew could not afford them because they could avoid all the risk of default by selling the loan off to the govt?
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Gaius46 said:
The question wasn't just restricted to lending by banks. It was a general statement. What if you borrow 10 grand from your brother in law?
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It was though, as this is a carry over from a previous discussion where Papa Bull tried to say that a liberal professor was trying to promote for people to default on their loans and that those people were immoral.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

sangha said:
By "do right" are you referring to the way banks sold mortgages to people they knew could not afford them because they could avoid all the risk of default by selling the loan off to the govt?
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And then unintentionally bought them back in mortgage-backed securities? LOL
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Gaius46 said:
The question wasn't just restricted to lending by banks. It was a general statement. What if you borrow 10 grand from your brother in law?
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Later on in the thread, the OP clarified that banks selling mortgages is what he was thinking of.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

sangha said:
Not paying back a mortgage is not "cheating". The consequences of not paying the mortgage are a part of the agreement that both the borrower *and* the lender agreed to.
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Not paying back a mortgage, while you financially are capable of doing so, simply because you feel the home is no longer worth more than the debt you owe on it is immoral. Not paying back a mortgage when your life situation changes through no fault of your own and you are no longer financially capable of doing so is not immoral.
 
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