• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    Votes: 91 92.9%

  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    Votes: 7 7.1%
  • Total voters
    98
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

TeleKat said:
Morality isn't that black & white.
Click to expand...

In this case it is. When you borrow money with no intent to repay it, not only is it a moral issue--it is a legal one: you are obtaining money under false pretenses.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
What's makes a bank loan different from a loan from an individual?
Click to expand...

The fact that it's not a person lending the money.

Do you figure it's different if it's a bank you're screwing instead of a "real person"? Is that it?
Click to expand...

Yes, that is exactly it. I don't expect a bank to do what is moral; I expect the bank to do what is in its' best interests to do.

The bank should expect the same from me
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
The banks don't get all their money back from selling the house. It was YOUR choice to buy the house. Reneging on the deal later just because it doesn't suit you any more is about the same as stealing money. You take money with the condition that you pay it back and you decide not to live up to your end of the bargain because it's more profitable for you if you don't. That's basically stealing.
Click to expand...
[emphasis added by bubba]

i hear you

NO way did the lender have the CHOICE to deny the requested loan

i speak fluent sarcasm.jpg
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
If you borrow money, do you feel there is a moral obligation to repay the money you borrowed?
Click to expand...

if from a person, yes

if from a company, no

From an individual, you can cause that individual harm in most situations as most individuals have only so many resources. If its a company, well that build a % loss into the business model, so its already accounted for. Given that, its best to try to repay any loan you can and only not to in cases where you become destitute.
 
Last edited:
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
If you borrow money, do you feel there is a moral obligation to repay the money you borrowed?
Click to expand...

Yes....
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

sangha said:
The fact that it's not a person lending the money.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought. I see this mentality frequently in liberals. It's a form of sociopathy to think it's OK to lie cheat or steal as long as it's a business instead of a real person that you are stealing from.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
If you borrow money, do you feel there is a moral obligation to repay the money you borrowed?
Click to expand...

You have a moral obligation to honour any contract you sign. Your signature is your word and if your word is worthless, you have no morals. It's pretty simple. But the world is complex, so I'd like to reserve a wee bit of wiggle room to consider unique circumstances where I might waiver on that absolute.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

foadi said:
Seems like that would be difficult to prove.
Click to expand...

It happens though from time to time, but certainly not common. The more common charges which amount to the same thing are check charges (uttering/larceny) or failure to return rented merchandise. The local police used false pretenses to go after panhandlers with their sob stories until the city code caught up with new laws allowing them just to arrest them for doing it on public property or on private property without the owner's consent. They would go after the "my car is out of gas and I need to get home" types and make them take them to their car with no gas or be arrested.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

iguanaman said:
Why do banks demand collateral if not to recoup losses from defaults? Why should borrowers pay for the banks mistakes?
I thought they were being paid interest because they are "taking risks"?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...



Interest is a fee that is paid for the use of the banks money.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
No. I'm talking about borrowing money (say for a house) and then if the house goes down in value, walking away in a "strategic default" and letting the bank get what they can for the house and taking the credit hit instead of paying for a house that has negative equity for you.
Click to expand...

There is a big difference between that and the original question. Yes, on principle it's moral to pay back someone what you owe them.
What you're talking about is a very specific situation.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

TeleKat said:
Morality isn't that black & white.
Click to expand...

Morality isn't really anything. People however commonly agree that keeping your word is moral behavior.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

shrubnose said:
Interest is a fee that is paid for the use of the banks money.
Click to expand...

True but that fee varies because of risk doesn't it? The more risk the more interest. Right?
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

iguanaman said:
True but that fee varies because of risk doesn't it?
The more risk the more interest. Right?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...



My experience is that if you're a better risk, you get a better interest rate.

If you want to be rated as a better risk always pay your bills on time.
 
Last edited:
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
If you borrow money, do you feel there is a moral obligation to repay the money you borrowed?
Click to expand...

One is obliged to fulfill any just contracts one has entered into in accordance with the civil law, unless excused by the other party.

It is not morally wrong to take advantage of stipulations in the contract, or in the civil law in force at the time of the contract.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
That's what I thought. I see this mentality frequently in liberals. It's a form of sociopathy to think it's OK to lie cheat or steal as long as it's a business instead of a real person that you are stealing from.
Click to expand...
[emphasis added by bubba]


how many times has that "liberal", the donald trump, had one of his companies declare bankruptcy to avoid paying debt obligations?
yea, only liberals fail to pay their debts
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Well, if there's one thing that I've learned from this thread, it's that liberals are dicks.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

iliveonramen said:
There is a big difference between that and the original question. Yes, on principle it's moral to pay back someone what you owe them.
What you're talking about is a very specific situation.
Click to expand...

There is ZERO difference between that and the original question because the original question is whether or not it is immoral to refuse to pay back a loan that you took out in good faith. It either is or is not. I think it is.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

justabubba said:
[emphasis added by bubba]


how many times has that "liberal", the donald trump, had one of his companies declare bankruptcy to avoid paying debt obligations?
yea, only liberals fail to pay their debts
Click to expand...

Didn't say ONLY liberals. And didn't say liberals fail to pay their debts. I said I FREQUENTLY see the mentality among liberals that it's OK to cheat or steal if it's a business instead of a person. Let that sink in. When you understand what I said, you'll probably agree whether you admit it or not.

In fact, I'm pointing out several examples for you right here in this thread.
 
Last edited:
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa bull said:
There is ZERO difference between that and the original question because the original question is whether or not it is immoral to refuse to pay back a loan that you took out in good faith. It either is or is not. I think it is.
Click to expand...

There is though:

The question you asked was a question on principle. Should you pay someone back that gives you money?
The second thing you asked focused on a contract between a business and an individual.
That contract states you are obligated to pay back the bank, if not they receive the asset you are paying off. It's that simple.
Businesses do that ALL THE TIME!

Also, there's no morality in the business world. Corporations and banks don't operate from any code of morality. They operate from contracts and regulations. Adhering to some moral code beyond what is required when dealing with an immoral entity just limits you...and ultimately makes you a sucker.


One example often cited by supporters of strategic defaulters is one of the biggest mortgage defaults in history. In 2010, real estate giants Tishman Speyer Properties and BlackRock Realty defaulted on $4.4 billion in loans on two major apartment complexes in New York City's Manhattan, letting the lender take over the properties after the development had lost about half of its value.

"It happens all the time," Valadez says. "It's a free economy. This is simply a business decision."
Click to expand...
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/real-estate/strategic-default.aspx
 
Last edited:
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

If a person freely agrees to the terms of a loan then they have a legal obligation to repay it. Morality is subjective whereas laws are not. If lenders simply depended on the morality of borrowers they'd go broke. Like Mama always said, "get it in writing."
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

iliveonramen said:
There is though:

The question you asked was a question on principle. Should you pay someone back that gives you money?
The second thing you asked focused on a contract between a business and an individual.
That contract states you are obligated to pay back the bank, if not they receive the asset you are paying off. It's that simple.
Businesses do that ALL THE TIME!

Also, there's no morality in the business world. Corporations and banks don't operate from any code of morality. They operate from contracts and regulations. Adhering to some moral code beyond what is required when dealing with an immoral entity just limits you...and ultimately makes you a sucker.
Click to expand...

Justabba...... you paying attention here?

ILOR.... Here's the question I asked: "If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it?"

It makes no difference at all whether it is a bank or an individual. It is no less dishonest to cheat a bank than it is to cheat your next door neighbor. To rationalize that you don't have to do what you agree to do as a condition for receiving money if it's a business instead of a person is precisely what I pointed out to Justabubba that I see frequently among liberals and it is a form of sociopathy.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Papa Bull is trying to turn this into a simple question. The original issue was about people who took out loans on houses before the collapse, then found themselves underwater, and who then walked away from the loans. He said the idea was from a "typical liberal professor" (I'm not even sure if the guy was liberal but whatever), and that the borrowers who did so were "contemptible". I questioned whether he believed that from a business/free market perspective.

This is his attempt to simplify the issue into black/white, moral/immoral terms.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

Moot said:
If a person freely agrees to the terms of a loan then they have a legal obligation to repay it. Morality is subjective whereas laws are not. If lenders simply depended on the morality of borrowers they'd go broke. Like Mama always said, "get it in writing."
Click to expand...

The fact that there is a legal obligation to repay does not mean that there isn't also a moral right to repay money that you borrow when you freely agree to the terms of a loan. The law does not supplant morality. More often than not, it is the codification of it.
 
Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

whysoserious said:
Papa Bull is trying to turn this into a simple question. The original issue was about people who took out loans on houses before the collapse, then found themselves underwater, and who then walked away from the loans. He said the idea was from a "typical liberal professor" (I'm not even sure if the guy was liberal but whatever), and that the borrowers who did so were "contemptible". I questioned whether he believed that from a business/free market perspective.

This is his attempt to simplify the issue into black/white, moral/immoral terms.
Click to expand...

It is black and white. You borrow money in good faith. Is it immoral to welsh on the deal?

Justabubba.... you listenin' here, buddy?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom