View Poll Results: Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

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  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    110 34.48%
  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    209 65.52%
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Thread: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Yep.

    I don't own my car, currently.
    Bank does, until I pay the loan off.

    Is why they require full coverage insurance.
    Incorrect. The title to the car is in your name, not the bank's name. The title is what signifies ownership. The bank doesn't own it, which is why you don't have to ask their permission to paint it or put a new stereo in it or drive it to New Jersey. They hold a lien on your car. The only thing they do require is that you pay off the balance you owe them when you transfer ownership to someone else. They require you to maintain sufficient insurance on it to protect their interest in it. You agreed to do that when you signed a note asking to borrow their money to purchase your car. Your car is security on a financial obligation to them. It is not their possession.

    After reading this thread I'm no longer surprised at how many stupid people in this country got themselves in trouble with taking mortgage loans they shouldn't have taken. People don't even know what they own.
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    You guys are saying the same thing. You're just wording it different ways.

    1) Yes, the title is under your name.
    2) No, you don't fully own the property because you have unfulfilled obligations.

    Who cares what you call it, you're agreeing. Move on.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Incorrect. The title to the car is in your name, not the bank's name. The title is what signifies ownership. The bank doesn't own it, which is why you don't have to ask their permission to paint it or put a new stereo in it or drive it to New Jersey. They hold a lien on your car. The only thing they do require is that you pay off the balance you owe them when you transfer ownership to someone else. They require you to maintain sufficient insurance on it to protect their interest in it. You agreed to do that when you signed a note asking to borrow their money to purchase your car. Your car is security on a financial obligation to them. It is not their possession.

    After reading this thread I'm no longer surprised at how many stupid people in this country got themselves in trouble with taking mortgage loans they shouldn't have taken. People don't even know what they own.
    Actually I've noticed that myself.

    It won't help me, but I strongly feel that some kind of basic economics/personal finances class should be REQUIRED for a person to graduate HS. And probably preparatory classes in prior grades.

    I have to learn stuff by making mistakes like this or researching it myself.


    However I will say that the bank CAN repossess my car if I stop paying - but I suppose they must get a court ruling for that.
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Actually I've noticed that myself.

    It won't help me, but I strongly feel that some kind of basic economics/personal finances class should be REQUIRED for a person to graduate HS. And probably preparatory classes in prior grades.

    I have to learn stuff by making mistakes like this or researching it myself.


    However I will say that the bank CAN repossess my car if I stop paying - but I suppose they must get a court ruling for that.
    Read what you just wrote. The bank can repossess your car if you stop paying. Repossession means they take ownership of your vehicle. They don't have it now. They only take ownership because you defaulted on your obligation to them.

    No, they don't need a court order to repossess a car. You signed an agreement that easily allows them to do it if you default. Not that they want to. Lenders do not want their collateral. It's a losing proposition for them. They would rather you pay as agreed.

    Just like foreclosure. The bank doesn't own your home until they foreclose on it, and in fact, when your home in foreclosure goes to auction, the bank actually has to buy it back if it doesn't sell at auction. Until that day, just like with a car, they do NOT own it. Each state has its own foreclosure rules and processes and that is far more complicated than seizing an auto.

    But people need to stop foolishly thinking that a lien on something that is titled or deeded in your name means that the lienholder is the owner. They are not. The only thing the bank "owns" is the debt on your collateral. You own the collateral, which is why you have the right to pledge it. I can't pledge your home as collateral because I don't own it.
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Incorrect. The title to the car is in your name, not the bank's name. The title is what signifies ownership. The bank doesn't own it, which is why you don't have to ask their permission to paint it or put a new stereo in it or drive it to New Jersey. They hold a lien on your car. The only thing they do require is that you pay off the balance you owe them when you transfer ownership to someone else. They require you to maintain sufficient insurance on it to protect their interest in it. You agreed to do that when you signed a note asking to borrow their money to purchase your car. Your car is security on a financial obligation to them. It is not their possession.

    After reading this thread I'm no longer surprised at how many stupid people in this country got themselves in trouble with taking mortgage loans they shouldn't have taken. People don't even know what they own.
    I would suggest that driving to New Jersey specifically should require some advance notice to the finance agent. The driver should also consider leaving loved ones and pets behind for any trip north of Cape May. It would be prudent. OTOH, if you live in your car, you'll be right at home.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Read what you just wrote. The bank can repossess your car if you stop paying. Repossession means they take ownership of your vehicle. They don't have it now. They only take ownership because you defaulted on your obligation to them.

    No, they don't need a court order to repossess a car. You signed an agreement that easily allows them to do it if you default. Not that they want to. Lenders do not want their collateral. It's a losing proposition for them. They would rather you pay as agreed.

    Just like foreclosure. The bank doesn't own your home until they foreclose on it, and in fact, when your home in foreclosure goes to auction, the bank actually has to buy it back if it doesn't sell at auction. Until that day, just like with a car, they do NOT own it. Each state has its own foreclosure rules and processes and that is far more complicated than seizing an auto.

    But people need to stop foolishly thinking that a lien on something that is titled or deeded in your name means that the lienholder is the owner. They are not. The only thing the bank "owns" is the debt on your collateral. You own it.
    Me be learnin' **** here.

    Thanks.


    Edit: From my perspective, however, it's basically the same thing - The bank gives me money to buy the car, I pay the bank back, and they take the car if they can't get money out of me for a long period of time. They also require that I have insurance on it.

    Effectively, I don't "own" the car free of obligation until I pay off the loan - whether I technically do own it, or not, doesn't change things much from my viewpoint on the whole convoluted thing...

    OR something?
    Last edited by The Mark; 01-28-15 at 11:35 PM.
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Me be learnin' **** here.

    Thanks.
    Enjoy your car.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by spangledbanner View Post
    You have never heard of a grace period? And bankruptcy is debt forgiveness.

    .
    And grace periods are part of the business model. What happens if they dont pay after that?

    And I've already posted this: in bankruptcy, the institution will recoup losses by spreading them out among other individuals that do business at that institution.

    IMO, that is immoral for an individual to do if they can avoid it. Some cannot, there are legitimate things that happen to people, loss of jobs, huge medical bills, short or long term disability.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    There has to be a reason for this insane post. I can't explain morality in paying a mortgage when I said that morality had nothing to do with borrowing or lending. Are you intentionally posting trolling posts?

    The "us"...is that you & Jasper who both don't understand the difference between a loan and a service agreement? Sorry, not bothering with you any more than I did with him. Once you two learn the difference, you'll understand why service contracts have nothing to do with this thread even if morality does have a place in borrowing or lending.
    For the record, it's not hard to understand the difference between a loan, and a lease, and a cell phone contract - they're all obligations to pay some amount, secured by a contract, which provides for specific remedies in the event of default. [For the record, the purpose of the two year cell phone commitment is (in most/all cases) to pay off part of the cost of a heavily discounted phone, so it is in fact a loan amortized over the two year period.]

    You're asserting some principled difference (but not a moral one!, the subject of this thread!) between a loan and all the rest and we're asking what principle separates them. It's a simple question, really.

    Others have asserted a moral obligation to repay a loan (the subject of this thread), but not a cell phone contract or a lease, and we've asked those making moral distinctions to describe on what principle they make those distinctions.

    Simple questions that no one will answer. There is something sacred about "loans" apparently that doesn't apply to other financial obligations with fixed terms.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    So then according to me, IMO...as per the OP's question...that is not moral behavior.

    People can have bad credit scores for alot of reasons, including medical debt.

    So. Another rationalization.
    I mean, pretty much nobody defaults on a loan they can easily pay back. So I'm not really sure how that changes anything.

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