View Poll Results: Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

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  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    110 34.48%
  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    209 65.52%
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Thread: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

  1. #821
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    It's not the bank's fault that the property values where you live dropped to the point that your home is underwater. It's not the bank's fault that you paid more for the home a few years ago than it is worth today. How do you rationalize that sticking it to the bank is OK when you chose the home and you agreed to the terms of the loan? They didn't do anything wrong, but you're arguing that you should stick them with your bad decision anyway because... what exactly was that rationalization again?
    Still ignoring that the lendee was paying for MORTGAGE INSURANCE.

    Why do you have 2 threads on this very same topic?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
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    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    VERY few lenders who wrote conventional mortgages for qualified borrowers always writing to Fannie standards as they always did had nothing - zero - to do with what was going on at the very large banks and the lenders like Countrywide. And if you're in this business as you said earlier that you were, you would also know that it wasn't most of the banks who worked with the appraisers in that way, and it was in fact only a handful (again) of large banks and the non-depository lenders.
    So does it change the moral obligation if the lender did behave unethically, jacking up appraisals and all the rest? If so I agree it makes a difference and I suspect but haven't seen the data that those lenders who stuck to their traditional business model were largely unaffected by strategic defaults and all the rest that started this discussion. It's part of the golden rule approach I've taken to this issue.

    And using that standard lenders who found every method to get those loans approved so they could rake off their cut of fees, transfer the default risk like a scalding hot potato on down the line, and pay large bonuses all around at each stop are due zero "moral" obligation to bail them out of their reckless approach to lending $hundreds of thousands to questionable borrowers, which is the identical moral concern they showed their customers and clients along the way. To me for those lenders, it's like arguing an antelope has a moral obligation to the hyenas who circle the herd preying off the weak.

  3. #823
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Part of the problem is you've never once attributed any blame to the banks. I can only figure you're a banker or they're your friends/family.

    The obvious corollary to that part bolded is the bank also agreed to the term of the loan and accepted that house as adequate collateral for extending you a subprime, liar, NINJA, negative amort, 110% of value, ARM etc. loan that had approximately zero margin for the borrower. They made tens of thousands of bad decisions to loan money on bubble home prices to questionable borrowers because it made them WEALTHY at the time. Borrowers have a one way moral obligation to bail them out of those stupid lending decisions?

    BTW, it's also not the borrowers fault that home prices dropped and that the loan is underwater, and when the bank agreed to your home as collateral, it accepted the risk of home values dropping. You're pretending the borrower has a MORAL obligation to bear the entirety of that risk. Not sure why.
    Because the bank isn't buying your house. You are buying the house. The house is YOUR investment.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  4. #824
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Because the bank isn't buying your house. You are buying the house. The house is YOUR investment.
    The bank OWNS the home until you make the last payment, and until you have over 20% equity, you have mortgage insurance, so if there is a default prior to 20% equity, the bank is made whole.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Why are you bothering me? Two things I've already said to you:

    1. Your posts are far too stupid for me to waste my time on.
    2. I said repeatedly that there is no morality in borrowing and lending.

    If you want to talk to someone about the moral obligation to pay your cell phone provider for your service agreement, find someone who is interested. I'm not. And it's off topic. This thread is about borrowing and lending.
    Why are you in a thread discussing the moral obligation of paying off a loan? The "moron at law school" made a simple case. I'll quote it:

    Though a mortgage contract is more substantial than a cell phone cont*ract, it’s no different in principle. Like a cell phone contract, a mortgage contract explicitly sets out the consequences of breach.

    In other words, the lender has contemplated in advance that the mort*gagor might be unable or unwilling to continue making payments on his mortgage at some point—and has decided in advance what fair compensation would be.
    The problem is you're too "stupid" to grasp that simple point, or explain in any kind of way that makes sense where his argument is faulty or what principle distinguishes some contracts such as cell phones or leases from loans.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Because the bank isn't buying your house. You are buying the house. The house is YOUR investment.
    And the house is THE BANK'S collateral that is stupidly decided was adequate security to advance loans of $hundreds of thousands.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    The topic of this thread is this:

    Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take

    You don't understand the difference between a loan and a service contract?
    would you please share the difference between the two from a morality standpoint
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Two very unrelated questions. If the bank wrote you the check and lived up to the terms of your agreement, the bank didn't swindle you. If the bank swindled you, then you might have an argument that you don't have a moral obligation to do what you agreed to do, but you can't prove that the bank swindled you just because you say that "banks swindle people". You actually have to prove they did something dirty, dishonest and designed to cheat you out of your money.
    You don't think that, by selling people houses they knew people couldn't afford, in some cases adding in balloon payments they knew the customer didn't understand, and selling those mortgages to get the bad debt off of the books, they acted immorally and unethically? You don't think they swindled both the customer, who will now have terrible credit and no home, and the client, who is now long on a bad security?
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  9. #829
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    would you please share the difference between the two from a morality standpoint
    I'll repeat what I keep saying.


    There is no morality in borrowing and lending.


    So I can't "share the difference" from a morality standpoint.

    I will, however, share the difference from a grown up person standpoint. A cell phone agreement isn't a loan. It's a service agreement. Nobody borrowed money from the service provider.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Because the bank isn't buying your house. You are buying the house. The house is YOUR investment.
    You're wasting your time here. But you are 100% correct. The bank did not buy the house. You bought the house. You own the house. The bank has a lien on your house until you have satisfied your obligation to the bank. A lien is not ownership. The deed is in your name and not the bank's name.

    I'm shaking my head at all the posts in this thread from people who apparently never took and loan nor bought a house, but pretend they know about them.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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