View Poll Results: Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

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  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    110 34.48%
  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    209 65.52%
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Thread: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

  1. #71
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Others are are going there for you.
    Because you are forcing the debate into that realm instead of discussing the real topic:

    How mortgage-backed securities and leveraging of credit-default swaps shat all over our economy. All you want to do is discuss the people who walked away from bad debt, when, as it has been pointed out to you, if it was done on a business level you'd have no problem with it.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    It's the same thing. You gave me a verbal contract. The business gave you a written contract. In both cases you promised to do something in order to get money. You promised to repay it. In both cases if you do not repay it, you are reneging on your deal, going back on your word and failing to do what you agreed to do in order to get that money. Now a bank's going to come after you for what they can to try to recoup some of their losses while I wouldn't do anything to you but who you did that to isn't relevant to the morality of it. The fact that you DID it is relevant to the morality of it.
    I see the two as completely different.

    I personal deal between two people operates on trust. I think if someone trusts you and you betray that trust it's pretty despicable.

    The mortgage is an arms length transaction based upon a contract written up and an agreement of both parties to the terms. The term is, if you refuse to pay back the bank with interest they will seize the asset. That's it. Like I had mentioned...this is a common practice and the rules of the game in the world of business.

    Two people do operate or morality. If you came to me and said "hey, I want to pay you back but I lost my job and my kid is sick so I have no money right now", I would act on morality and say "I understand buddy, just pay me back when you can". The loan is typically one party really helping out the other party.

    Try your sad story to the bank, they may work with you a bit but that's based solely on self interest. They would rather you continue payments rather than go through the foreclosure process and the resale of the house. they are not moral entities. They are entities that exist solely for their best interest based on the requirements by law and contract. Why wouldn't you operate by the same rules? Why would you restrict yourself in that environment that has a set of rules? You should always operate in your own self interest in that situation.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  3. #73
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I see the two as completely different.
    So do a whole lot of liberals. It's not different but for some reason a whole bunch of you want to say that for them it is.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  4. #74
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    Actually it does. Because only a fool would make a moral agreement to an amoral entity because the nature of the agreement cannot be within the scope of morality due to the fact its an amoral entity. It negates the possibility in the first place due to the inherent impersonal nature of the transaction.

    You should be more easily be able to get this simple concept. Ive explained it from many angles now.
    That was some of the most awesome double-talking rationalization I think I've EVER seen. The agreement isn't the "morality" issue.

    Breaking YOUR word for YOUR gain is the morality issue. You act like it's OK to behave in an immoral way as long as the behavior is directed at someone or something that you can claim to be "amoral" in nature. This is, as I said, sociopathic thinking.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  5. #75
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    So do a whole lot of liberals. It's not different but for some reason a whole bunch of you want to say that for them it is.
    You not knowing the difference between a SECURED loan and an unsecured loan says more about you intelligence than your lean. Plenty of righties walked away from those predatory loans. Loans that were illegal by most State laws. The banks are now paying record fines for writing them too.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 01-23-15 at 05:46 PM.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    So do a whole lot of liberals. It's not different but for some reason a whole bunch of you want to say that for them it is.
    No...not just liberals...every CEO in charge of corporation as well. I'm sure some of them are conservatives too.

    In fact, more affluent individuals had higher rates of strategic defaults. What I feel bad for are individuals that suffer according to rules that aren't present.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Just because you don't know the difference between a SECURED loan and an unsecured loan says more about you intelligence than your lean. Plenty of righties walked away from those predatory loans. Illegal loans that the banks are now paying record fines for writing.
    I know the difference. It's immoral to refuse to pay back either one. The morality of welching on your loan doesn't depend on whether it's secured or not. It depends on you not doing what you said you would do in order to extract money from someone else.

    And the "well other guys did it too" crap doesn't make it right. Anyone that walked away from their mortgage when they actually had the means to pay it is immoral and whether they're a "righty" or a "lefty" matters not one little bit. The odd thing is that I don't see any righties on this thread arguing that it's OK to welsh on your loans. I'm only seeing lefties doing that. It's one of the big differences between the way lefties and righties think.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I know the difference. It's immoral to refuse to pay back either one. The morality of welching on your loan doesn't depend on whether it's secured or not. It depends on you not doing what you said you would do in order to extract money from someone else.

    And the "well other guys did it too" crap doesn't make it right. Anyone that walked away from their mortgage when they actually had the means to pay it is immoral and whether they're a "righty" or a "lefty" matters not one little bit. The odd thing is that I don't see any righties on this thread arguing that it's OK to welsh on your loans. I'm only seeing lefties doing that. It's one of the big differences between the way lefties and righties think.
    You're right there is the difference between the leans. Righties would see no reason to admit they walked away and would most likely rail against it anyway. Just like those pro-lifers who run right out and get an abortion for their daughter when she get's "caught". Conservatives have high "principles" but never let them get in the way of doing what's best for them.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 01-23-15 at 05:58 PM.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    The fact that there is a legal obligation to repay does not mean that there isn't also a moral right to repay money that you borrow when you freely agree to the terms of a loan. The law does not supplant morality. More often than not, it is the codification of it.

    "A moral right to repay money?" That might depend on whether or not you have a moral right to borrow in the first place and who protects that right. For instance, if an underage child took out a loan, do his/her parents have a moral right to repay it? Until there was a law preventing the lending to children...yes, they were. Do the lenders have moral rights? Big banks didn't seem to have a moral care with adjustable rate mortgages driving people into bankruptcy. Do you think loan sharks or Payday lenders with 40% interest rates care about morality? My guess is they don't. For that reason we have laws that attempt to protect the interests of both borrowers and lenders just so people can stay moral and not kill each other over a measly dollar.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Your right there is the difference between the leans. Righties would see no reason to admit they walked away and would most likely rail against it anyway. Just like those anti-abortionists who run right out and get an abortion for their daughter when she get's "caught".
    It's convenient to be a liberal because you have the advantage of never being accused of living up to your values. The fact that some righties do just means they fail. If you think it's a great excuse for not having any values at all, well, I suppose everyone has to figure out some way to be comfortable in their own skin.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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