View Poll Results: Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

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  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    110 34.48%
  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    209 65.52%
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Thread: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

  1. #701
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    There's no deflection. Banks are on the hook for any loan they give you. If you don't repay the money, it comes out of their ass, so idiotic arguments that "it's not the bank's money" are the real pathetic diversions. It's simply not true and you sound like you're smart enough to know that, which makes it more likely an issue of honesty than ignorance.
    Which wasn't my argument in the first place. (Reading is Fundamental, remember?) I just have a problem with banks' lending money they don't already have.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

  2. #702
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    It's no different than the idiotic health care system we have. There is little more irresponsible, dangerous, and bad for the economy than not carrying health insurance, yet the most conservative state in the country - Texas (I don't know if it's actually the most conservative state) - has the highest rate uninsured.
    Utterly unrelated issues. Forcing banks to make bad loans is one issue. People who don't have healthcare insurance is a completely different issue. You can bring that up on a new topic, if you think there's something meaningful behind the fact that Texas has the highest uninsured rate in the country. (Unless you can prove that it's the conservatives that are the ones that have such a high uninsured rate, you wouldn't have as good a point as you might think you do, though).
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  3. #703
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Which wasn't my argument in the first place. (Reading is Fundamental, remember?) I just have a problem with banks' lending money they don't already have.
    You aren't paying attention. They are loaning based on ASSETS they already have. Money isn't the only asset of value. Mortgages are also assets of value. How much currency a bank has on hand doesn't in any way tell you what their assets are or how much debt they can cover. When they write you a mortgage check, you are cashing a check that is valid and good and has money to back it. They loaned you money they DO have. The fact that you don't understand how the banking system works doesn't change that fact. So your reasoning for feeling it's OK to stick the bank with YOUR bad purchasing decision because "they loaned you money they didn't have" is nonsense.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  4. #704
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    There's no deflection. Banks are on the hook for any loan they give you. If you don't repay the money, it comes out of their ass, so idiotic arguments that "it's not the bank's money" are the real pathetic diversions. It's simply not true and you sound like you're smart enough to know that, which makes it more likely an issue of honesty than ignorance.
    reading from the sidelines, i believe you missed his point
    if you go to your local hardware store to pick up the order you prepaid to have available, and the store went out of business, you lose your money
    however, if your bank goes under, the government has insured your deposits up to $250,000
    the hardware store has no such backstop
    which i understood to be the basis for his suggesting we treat all businesses the same
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    reading from the sidelines, i believe you missed his point
    if you go to your local hardware store to pick up the order you prepaid to have available, and the store went out of business, you lose your money
    however, if your bank goes under, the government has insured your deposits up to $250,000
    the hardware store has no such backstop
    which i understood to be the basis for his suggesting we treat all businesses the same
    I see. Are you thinking he feels that FDIC depositor insurance is a bad thing because hardware stores don't have (or need) the same consumer protection? FDIC deposit insurance doesn't do anything to stop. Bank from going out of business if it fails. It just keeps you from losing all the savings you entrusted to the bank when they failed.

    How do you think that figures into whether or not it is immoral to make the bank foreclose on your bad investment because you make out better sticking THEM with The loss from YOUR bad purchasing decision?
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  6. #706
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    Interesting exchange. A teachable moment if you will. In an interview last week, the dean of the Harvard Business School made reference for Charlie Rose the three lenses they teach people to use: Economics, Legality, and Ethics. The apparently now have an oath they want graduates to take, but some people refuse to sign the oath.
    I've heard about the increased focus on business ethics at Harvard Business. I don't think it makes a difference though. I don't think people in charge of corporations act badly because they don't know any better. The idea of customers and workers being equal stakeholders for a corporation isn't a new one.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    One only has to use thinking skills to understand.

    It's like saying cancer is no different than a pimple because they are both treated with medicine.

    He has minimized the seriousness of defaulting on mortgages, and some idiots will read it and say "Eh, no big deal....it's just like me not picking up Sally at preschool at 3:00 instead of 4:30". Unreal.
    It's actually nothing like that.
    The argument is that contracts include both and outline and a penalty for a breach of contract. In either case, both parties will act in their best interest.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I've heard about the increased focus on business ethics at Harvard Business. I don't think it makes a difference though. I don't think people in charge of corporations act badly because they don't know any better. The idea of customers and workers being equal stakeholders for a corporation isn't a new one.
    It isn't just that. I think the idea is to get people to consider things as they go forward that they normally would not consider based on a spreadsheet. It could be human resources matters, but it could also be environmental matters, or community relations matters, etc.

  9. #709
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Which wasn't my argument in the first place. (Reading is Fundamental, remember?) I just have a problem with banks' lending money they don't already have.
    Have you ever borrowed money the lender didn't already have?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  10. #710
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    It's actually nothing like that.
    The argument is that contracts include both and outline and a penalty for a breach of contract. In either case, both parties will act in their best interest.
    And we have "contracts" known as "laws" that outline what penalty there will be for a breach of that contract, too. The existence of a penalty for those that break our agreements isn't to be assumed to mean that breaking those agreements cannot be immoral by virtue of choosing the penalty rather than doing what's right.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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