View Poll Results: Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

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  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    110 34.48%
  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    209 65.52%
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Thread: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

  1. #601
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I wouldn't walk away from 10,000 underwater either. There are places that saw a 60-70% drop in home prices. That's a little different than owing say 300,000 on a 120,000 dollar house.


    The vast majority of foreclosures are a result of lost jobs, family illness, or too much accumulated debt. Strategic foreclosures were typically much more rare and only done in higher income neighborhoods where the values dropped the most.

    Not to mention...a large portion of those strategic defaults were speculators.
    The "strategic defaults" were immoral whether they were by you speculating that the more house you can buy the richer you will be when you retire - or whether it was some other guy speculating on it. In no other "speculation" game do you get to pull your money back out of the pot when you have a busted hand. When you borrow money to buy a house, there is no condition that if the house doesn't turn out to be worth as much as you paid for it some day that you can just let the bank take the house and call it even. That's NOT the agreement you make.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    That's not true. Unless you've ever been faced with a situation where your house was extremely underwater answering one way or another on a website doesn't answer any questions on character. Maybe Liberals are just more introspective and truthful with what they would do? It seems as if every conservative on here has a knee jerk reaction "I'd be paying back all 300k on a 2 dollar house!" when in reality they would literally run from that house.
    I believe the question was "do you have a moral obligation to repay money you borrow". It doesn't matter what the value of the house is, you are obligated to pay back the loan.

    Do people walk away from car loans? The loan is typically way more than the car is worth just one month later.

    So, should the value of the collateral be the deciding factor? If so, political ideology might need to become an underwriting standard, so morally challenged people don't screw up the economy again.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no
    what i am showing is that there is a business issue versus a moral issue
    and regarding the underwater mortgage, there is no moral issue
    only a business decision
    So (as I said) your answer to the question is simply "no". You do not believe there is a moral obligation to pay back money you borrow.


    What did you do in government, again?

  4. #604
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    So (as I said) your answer to the question is simply "no". You do not believe there is a moral obligation to pay back money you borrow.


    What did you do in government, again?
    among other things, liquidation/recovery of government and government guaranteed loans
    notably, defaulting debtors were not seen as immoral borrowers
    one indication we were too rigid in our underwriting processes was a very low default rate, indicating too conservative approval criteria
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    The "strategic defaults" were immoral whether they were by you speculating that the more house you can buy the richer you will be when you retire - or whether it was some other guy speculating on it. In no other "speculation" game do you get to pull your money back out of the pot when you have a busted hand. When you borrow money to buy a house, there is no condition that if the house doesn't turn out to be worth as much as you paid for it some day that you can just let the bank take the house and call it even. That's NOT the agreement you make.
    You are making broad generalizations. The fact is, how confident are you of the individuals that say they would pay off their home would continue to pay it off if say...the mortgage was 400k and they could find a similar house near the same neighborhood for 200k? Maybe the Liberals in this thread are more realistic?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    among other things, liquidation/recovery of government and government guaranteed loans
    notably, defaulting debtors were not seen as immoral borrowers
    one indication we were too rigid in our underwriting processes was a very low default rate, indicating too conservative approval criteria
    Working for the government, you didn't see defaulting on debt as immoral and if you had a low default rate, it just meant that government policies weren't making sure banks were giving enough loans to people who couldn't pay them off. And we wonder what the hell is wrong with our government, don't we?
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    You are making broad generalizations. The fact is, how confident are you of the individuals that say they would pay off their home would continue to pay it off if say...the mortgage was 400k and they could find a similar house near the same neighborhood for 200k? Maybe the Liberals in this thread are more realistic?
    Or more dishonest. "Well screw the bank, I'm not paying my loan because I think I can get a better deal now". I suppose more people would be willing to sell their integrity for 200K than they would for a piddling 25 or 30K, huh? What's your integrity worth? How much would you sell out for?
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I believe the question was "do you have a moral obligation to repay money you borrow". It doesn't matter what the value of the house is, you are obligated to pay back the loan.

    Do people walk away from car loans? The loan is typically way more than the car is worth just one month later.

    So, should the value of the collateral be the deciding factor? If so, political ideology might need to become an underwriting standard, so morally challenged people don't screw up the economy again.
    I'm sure most banks operate based on what people would do in order to further their own self interest rather than what they say they would do.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Business is amoral. BEHAVIOR, however, is not. Do you really want to argue that if your boss refuses to pay you what you are due that it is NOT immoral? Or that if a business dumps poison in your well knowingly that they did nothing immoral? Rationalizing that you can lie, cheat or steal without being immoral if you just say that whoever you screwed is amoral - so it's OK....

    Seriously, that's the disconnect with the human "conscience" that is the defining characteristic of sociopathy. Are we becoming a nation of sociopaths?
    Two amoral entities can still work together to accomplish something that benefits both of them. In fact, it happens every day. The modern economy couldn't exist without such relationships.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I'm sure most banks operate based on what people would do in order to further their own self interest rather than what they say they would do.
    It's been my experience that most banks operate on what people say they are going to do as evidenced by the signed documents that are involved.

    There is also little doubt they must also assume there is a percentage of their business which will be conducted with people of little character. I am also certain they must account for a best guess percentage of their loans that will indeed end up in default despite everyone's best efforts.

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