View Poll Results: Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

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  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    110 34.48%
  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    209 65.52%
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Thread: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

  1. #591
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Banks aren't an evil institution any more than liberal are an evil group of people. Loaning money isn't evil. It is an agreement that profits both the bank and the individual borrowing. Otherwise, neither need enter a loan agreement.
    Loaning money is fine; loaning money you don't have isn't.

    People have starved not from a lack of resources, but from paralysis of our monetary and economic systems, with banks at the root of it.

    That's what's evil about the institution, not necessarily the banks themselves.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Option 3: Depends on who you borrowed the money from.

    If you borrowed it from an individual, then yes, you are morally obligated to repay on their terms, or as soon as possible afterwards if you can't make the payment(s).

    If it's a bank, there is no "moral" issue about a strategic default. The reason is simple: the government bails out the banks. They don't bail out individuals.
    If I understand correctly, essentially, you have no morals of your own. Your morals are solely determined by others.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    which is why he - and you - are found guilty of conflating a business decision with a moral one
    ....you appear to be not getting the cognitive leap: He is asking "what is the right thing to do from a moral perspective", not a business or legal one. If the answer is "morals play no role in whether or not I borrow money and then don't pay it back", then your answer is "no".


    But all you are doing right now is validating Papa Bull.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    If I understand correctly, essentially, you have no morals of your own. Your morals are solely determined by others.
    Given that businesses are fundamentally amoral, the only logical thing to do when dealing with them is to take an amoral position yourself.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematica View Post
    Loaning money is fine; loaning money you don't have isn't.
    You obviously don't understand how banks work. Leverage makes this economy work. When a bank loans you money, it doesn't loan you cash, per se. It writes a number on a piece of paper called a "check". It is a piece of paper that represents a cash value. And your mortgage is a piece of paper that represents a cash value. Both the check and the mortgage have a face value. The bank can sell your mortgage just like you can sell the endorsed check.

    People have starved not from a lack of resources, but from paralysis of our monetary and economic systems, with banks at the root of it.
    That is an unsupportable statement.

    That's what's evil about the institution, not necessarily the banks themselves.
    and the unsupportable statement is the basis for your assertion that banks are evil. Banks aren't here for the purpose of starving people. They are here to facilitate cash flow and provide financial services. Don't like the services? Don't use them. Problem solved.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    For the same reason I'm stuck on a night and day dichotomy. Liberals are the philosophical opposites of conservatives and this issue of character and morals is just as evident as night and day. I'm stuck on the liberal/conservative dichotomy because it's staring us all in the face to the point where denying is lying.
    That's not true. Unless you've ever been faced with a situation where your house was extremely underwater answering one way or another on a website doesn't answer any questions on character. Maybe Liberals are just more introspective and truthful with what they would do? It seems as if every conservative on here has a knee jerk reaction "I'd be paying back all 300k on a 2 dollar house!" when in reality they would literally run from that house.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ....you appear to be not getting the cognitive leap: He is asking "what is the right thing to do from a moral perspective", not a business or legal one. If the answer is "morals play no role in whether or not I borrow money and then don't pay it back", then your answer is "no".


    But all you are doing right now is validating Papa Bull.
    no
    what i am showing is that there is a business issue versus a moral issue
    and regarding the underwater mortgage, there is no moral issue
    only a business decision
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by DifferentDrummr View Post
    Given that businesses are fundamentally amoral, the only logical thing to do when dealing with them is to take an amoral position yourself.
    Business is amoral. BEHAVIOR, however, is not. Do you really want to argue that if your boss refuses to pay you what you are due that it is NOT immoral? Or that if a business dumps poison in your well knowingly that they did nothing immoral? Rationalizing that you can lie, cheat or steal without being immoral if you just say that whoever you screwed is amoral - so it's OK....

    Seriously, that's the disconnect with the human "conscience" that is the defining characteristic of sociopathy. Are we becoming a nation of sociopaths?
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    That's not true. Unless you've ever been faced with a situation where your house was extremely underwater answering one way or another on a website doesn't answer any questions on character. Maybe Liberals are just more introspective and truthful with what they would do? It seems as if every conservative on here has a knee jerk reaction "I'd be paying back all 300k on a 2 dollar house!" when in reality they would literally run from that house.
    I lost every penny of 8 years of on-time mortgage payments, my deposit AND Another 10,000.00 when I sold my home because it was so badly underwater. I could have skipped out on it but I didn't. I didn't need to worry about the hit to my credit because I had enough to buy my current home with cash. I would have been 10k richer just to walk away and let the bank foreclose.

    But I agreed to repay x-amount of money and it wasn't conditional based on my happiness with the value my house. What my house was worth in the changing market was irrelevant. I borrowed x-amount with the condition that I repay x-amount and a fixed interest rate. So I did what I agreed to do. My behavior didn't contribute to the financial crisis we all paid for but the behavior of people who walked on their loans did.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I lost every penny of 8 years of on-time mortgage payments, my deposit AND Another 10,000.00 when I sold my home because it was so badly underwater. I could have skipped out on it but I didn't. I didn't need to worry about the hit to my credit because I had enough to buy my current home with cash. I would have been 10k richer just to walk away and let the bank foreclose.
    I wouldn't walk away from 10,000 underwater either. There are places that saw a 60-70% drop in home prices. That's a little different than owing say 300,000 on a 120,000 dollar house.

    But I agreed to repay x-amount of money and it wasn't conditional based on my happiness with the value my house. What my house was worth in the changing market was irrelevant. I borrowed x-amount with the condition that I repay x-amount and a fixed interest rate. So I did what I agreed to do. My behavior didn't contribute to the financial crisis we all paid for but the behavior of people who walked on their loans did.
    The vast majority of foreclosures are a result of lost jobs, family illness, or too much accumulated debt. Strategic foreclosures were typically much more rare and only done in higher income neighborhoods where the values dropped the most.

    Not to mention...a large portion of those strategic defaults were speculators.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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