View Poll Results: Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

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  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    110 34.48%
  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    209 65.52%
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Thread: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

  1. #551
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    Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    `
    The real question should be is the lender morally obligated to show forbearance, mercy and charity towards the borrower?
    Radcen is right. That is a completely different question for a completely different thread. And without explaining what you mean by "charity, mercy and forbearance", you can't even have a sensible discussion. One could argue that lenders who have a grace period for late payments shows mercy, forbearance and charity. But, like I said, that isn't a better question. It's just another question; one that actually has no bearing at all on this one.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Radcen is right. That is a completely different question for a completely different thread. And without explaining what you mean by "charity, mercy and forbearance", you can't even have a sensible discussion. One could argue that lenders who have a grace period for late payments shows mercy, forbearance and charity. But, like I said, that isn't a better question. It's just another question; one that actually has no bearing at all on this one.
    so, you would leave us with the question, do we owe a moral obligation to an entity which would not act morally towards us
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    so, you would leave us with the question, do we owe a moral obligation to an entity which would not act morally towards us
    Silly non sequitur. I said it is a different question. And one we haven't answered but you assume an answer. And you also assume that moral obligations must be null and void toward anyone or thing we Don't think is "moral" by our estimates. Unless, however, a bank is breaking it's agreement with you, you cannot argue that it was immoral because it loaned you money and, therefore, you can renege on your deals, refuse to repay and not be immoral because of it. So much silliness....
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It is a good question. The problem comes with the moral hazard. Loan forgiveness can quickly become an incentive to dive deeper into debt, or at least not to change ones' habits and circumstances.
    `
    Does morality even have a play here? To borrow money without the "intent" of paying it back is theft and is both illegal and violates the ethics of most societies....with the possible exception of the Spartans. To borrow money in good faith but being unable to pay back for reasons beyond the borrowers control , puts the onus on the lender to make a moral or ethical judgement call.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    so, you would leave us with the question, do we owe a moral obligation to an entity which would not act morally towards us
    If your actions are dictated by the actions of others, then you are no better than they are. In fact, you don't even have the character to stand up and say, "I have no character.". Instead, you blame it on others.

    Generic 'you', btw.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Silly non sequitur. I said it is a different question. And one we haven't answered but you assume an answer. And you also assume that moral obligations must be null and void toward anyone or thing we Don't think is "moral" by our estimates. Unless, however, a bank is breaking it's agreement with you, you cannot argue that it was immoral because it loaned you money and, therefore, you can renege on your deals, refuse to repay and not be immoral because of it. So much silliness....
    waiting for you to explain whether you feel a moral obligation towards an entity that would not act in a moral manner towards you
    but then you have already shared with us that you wasted thirty grand paying over to a lender the amount you were upside down in your house
    when instead you could have tendered a deed in lieu of foreclosure and cleared the debt
    so, unless you advise otherwise, it seems safe to conclude you do believe in acting morally towards a lender which would not reciprocate in a moral manner
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  7. #557
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    Does morality even have a play here? To borrow money without the "intent" of paying it back is theft and is both illegal and violates the ethics of most societies....with the possible exception of the Spartans. To borrow money in good faith but being unable to pay back for reasons beyond the borrowers control , puts the onus on the lender to make a moral or ethical judgement call.
    How do you intend to measure "intent"? Call a priest to perform a divination?

    Beyond that - if a person makes poor financial decisions, are you helping them if you enable them to continue to do so? Is it ethical to give a drunk a drink because he asked for it and you want to be charitable?

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Radcen is right. That is a completely different question for a completely different thread. And without explaining what you mean by "charity, mercy and forbearance", you can't even have a sensible discussion. One could argue that lenders who have a grace period for late payments shows mercy, forbearance and charity. But, like I said, that isn't a better question. It's just another question; one that actually has no bearing at all on this one.
    `
    Legal forbearance is a contractual clause. Not all lending agreements contain that. Is it not morally just and incumbent for the lender to include that in a contract?

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    waiting for you to explain whether you feel a moral obligation towards an entity that would not act in a moral manner towards you
    but then you have already shared with us that you wasted thirty grand paying over to a lender the amount you were upside down in your house
    when instead you could have tendered a deed in lieu of foreclosure and cleared the debt
    so, unless you advise otherwise, it seems safe to conclude you do believe in acting morally towards a lender which would not reciprocate in a moral manner
    1. what radcen said.

    2. if you borrow the money, you agree to pay it back. if you use a house or car for collateral, that does not alter your obligation.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    How do you intend to measure "intent"? Call a priest to perform a divination? Beyond that - if a person makes poor financial decisions, are you helping them if you enable them to continue to do so? Is it ethical to give a drunk a drink because he asked for it and you want to be charitable?
    `
    Exactly my point....why is morality even a point here? Yes, a borrower is legally and ethically obligated to pay back what they owe but when "morality" is thrown in, it involves subjective values and principles that cannot be defined by law. Therefore, the question tends to be nonsensical.

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