View Poll Results: Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

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  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    110 34.48%
  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    209 65.52%
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Thread: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

  1. #41
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    That's what I thought. I see this mentality frequently in liberals. It's a form of sociopathy to think it's OK to lie cheat or steal as long as it's a business instead of a real person that you are stealing from.
    [emphasis added by bubba]


    how many times has that "liberal", the donald trump, had one of his companies declare bankruptcy to avoid paying debt obligations?
    yea, only liberals fail to pay their debts
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  2. #42
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Well, if there's one thing that I've learned from this thread, it's that liberals are dicks.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    There is a big difference between that and the original question. Yes, on principle it's moral to pay back someone what you owe them.
    What you're talking about is a very specific situation.
    There is ZERO difference between that and the original question because the original question is whether or not it is immoral to refuse to pay back a loan that you took out in good faith. It either is or is not. I think it is.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  4. #44
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    [emphasis added by bubba]


    how many times has that "liberal", the donald trump, had one of his companies declare bankruptcy to avoid paying debt obligations?
    yea, only liberals fail to pay their debts
    Didn't say ONLY liberals. And didn't say liberals fail to pay their debts. I said I FREQUENTLY see the mentality among liberals that it's OK to cheat or steal if it's a business instead of a person. Let that sink in. When you understand what I said, you'll probably agree whether you admit it or not.

    In fact, I'm pointing out several examples for you right here in this thread.
    Last edited by Papa bull; 01-23-15 at 04:53 PM.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  5. #45
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    There is ZERO difference between that and the original question because the original question is whether or not it is immoral to refuse to pay back a loan that you took out in good faith. It either is or is not. I think it is.
    There is though:

    The question you asked was a question on principle. Should you pay someone back that gives you money?
    The second thing you asked focused on a contract between a business and an individual.
    That contract states you are obligated to pay back the bank, if not they receive the asset you are paying off. It's that simple.
    Businesses do that ALL THE TIME!

    Also, there's no morality in the business world. Corporations and banks don't operate from any code of morality. They operate from contracts and regulations. Adhering to some moral code beyond what is required when dealing with an immoral entity just limits you...and ultimately makes you a sucker.


    One example often cited by supporters of strategic defaulters is one of the biggest mortgage defaults in history. In 2010, real estate giants Tishman Speyer Properties and BlackRock Realty defaulted on $4.4 billion in loans on two major apartment complexes in New York City's Manhattan, letting the lender take over the properties after the development had lost about half of its value.

    "It happens all the time," Valadez says. "It's a free economy. This is simply a business decision."
    http://www.bankrate.com/finance/real...c-default.aspx
    Last edited by iliveonramen; 01-23-15 at 04:49 PM.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  6. #46
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    If a person freely agrees to the terms of a loan then they have a legal obligation to repay it. Morality is subjective whereas laws are not. If lenders simply depended on the morality of borrowers they'd go broke. Like Mama always said, "get it in writing."

  7. #47
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    There is though:

    The question you asked was a question on principle. Should you pay someone back that gives you money?
    The second thing you asked focused on a contract between a business and an individual.
    That contract states you are obligated to pay back the bank, if not they receive the asset you are paying off. It's that simple.
    Businesses do that ALL THE TIME!

    Also, there's no morality in the business world. Corporations and banks don't operate from any code of morality. They operate from contracts and regulations. Adhering to some moral code beyond what is required when dealing with an immoral entity just limits you...and ultimately makes you a sucker.
    Justabba...... you paying attention here?

    ILOR.... Here's the question I asked: "If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it?"

    It makes no difference at all whether it is a bank or an individual. It is no less dishonest to cheat a bank than it is to cheat your next door neighbor. To rationalize that you don't have to do what you agree to do as a condition for receiving money if it's a business instead of a person is precisely what I pointed out to Justabubba that I see frequently among liberals and it is a form of sociopathy.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  8. #48
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Papa Bull is trying to turn this into a simple question. The original issue was about people who took out loans on houses before the collapse, then found themselves underwater, and who then walked away from the loans. He said the idea was from a "typical liberal professor" (I'm not even sure if the guy was liberal but whatever), and that the borrowers who did so were "contemptible". I questioned whether he believed that from a business/free market perspective.

    This is his attempt to simplify the issue into black/white, moral/immoral terms.
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    If a person freely agrees to the terms of a loan then they have a legal obligation to repay it. Morality is subjective whereas laws are not. If lenders simply depended on the morality of borrowers they'd go broke. Like Mama always said, "get it in writing."
    The fact that there is a legal obligation to repay does not mean that there isn't also a moral right to repay money that you borrow when you freely agree to the terms of a loan. The law does not supplant morality. More often than not, it is the codification of it.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  10. #50
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Papa Bull is trying to turn this into a simple question. The original issue was about people who took out loans on houses before the collapse, then found themselves underwater, and who then walked away from the loans. He said the idea was from a "typical liberal professor" (I'm not even sure if the guy was liberal but whatever), and that the borrowers who did so were "contemptible". I questioned whether he believed that from a business/free market perspective.

    This is his attempt to simplify the issue into black/white, moral/immoral terms.
    It is black and white. You borrow money in good faith. Is it immoral to welsh on the deal?

    Justabubba.... you listenin' here, buddy?
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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