View Poll Results: Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

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  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    110 34.48%
  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    209 65.52%
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Thread: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

  1. #401
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And I maintain that morality does not require the paying back of loans made by banks or other financial institutions.

    When I take a loan, I create an obligation to adhere to the terms of the contract - which I do. However, the terms do not require that I pay back the loan. At least, none of the loans I've ever taken require that. They have all contained provisions that allow me to not pay back the loan and there's nothing immoral about taking a course of action that the contract has defined
    Talk about mental gymnastics. Wow! That's so head-in-the-sand bat-scheit crazy that a response is almost impossible.

    What you describe are not options for you to pick and choose at your convenience. They are penalties for not adhering to the terms.

    I'd be interested in seeing the wording of your contracts and would be specifically interested in the wording that lays these out as options subject to your choice.
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  2. #402
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I didn't say it was against the law. I said it was immoral. Lots of things that are immoral aren't against the law. You can step out on your wife on a regular basis but it's not illegal but it sure as hell is immoral.

    Secondly, nobody forced a person to sign a contract to purchase a home at a price agreed to by both the buyer and the seller. The bank or mortgage provider wasn't a party to that contract so they didn't set the price. The mortgage provider only appraises the home's value at the time of issuing the mortgage to ensure there is sufficient equity in the home to cover the mortgage because it is illegal, fraudulent, to finance any item at a higher value than it is worth. But make no mistake, the purchaser of the home set the price, not the bank/mortgage company.

    Finally, housing prices rise and fall often cyclically, similar to the stock market. If you buy stocks on margin hoping to see the price rise and it doesn't, does that mean you can just walk away and let someone else pay for your bad bet? The same thing happened in the housing market in the US. People were buying homes they couldn't afford hoping that a new sucker would buy that home at a higher price before they had to answer the call on the debt. Unfortunately for many, the market ran out of suckers and people were stuck, the market tanked, and more unfortunately some good, honest people saw their home devalue too through no fault of their own.
    This is so full of falsehoods I can't believe it. I will only correct 2 of them. Banks set the amount they will lend for a mortgage based on an appraisal they hire. It would make no sense for them to lend more than a home is worth. Home prices are NOT like the stock market, with few exceptions like this bubble, home prices go up at a steady rate. I'de like to see you try to get a bank to lend you money to buy stocks.

    Last edited by iguanaman; 01-24-15 at 10:55 AM.

  3. #403
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The only thing I mentioned that is irrelevant is that the business in question is incorporated. It makes no difference at all how the business is legally seen or how it is put together as they are still run by people in all cases.
    I would treat a sole proprietorship very differently and interpersonal moral rules would apply

  4. #404
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Talk about mental gymnastics. Wow! That's so head-in-the-sand bat-scheit crazy that a response is almost impossible.

    What you describe are not options for you to pick and choose at your convenience. They are penalties for not adhering to the terms.
    Wrong. Foreclosure is not a penalty; it is a means to satisfy a loan

    I'd be interested in seeing the wording of your contracts and would be specifically interested in the wording that lays these out as options subject to your choice.
    And I'd be interested in seeing the wording that describes them as "penalties"
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  5. #405
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    That is a flat out lie

    In most loans, the lender agrees that the collateral will satisfy the loan.
    A flat out lie and ignorant nonsense to boot. There is no loan contract in existence that has language as you suggest. The only remotely consistent "loan" transaction that would meet your description is a pawn shop where you drop off a piece of property, get cash for a portion of the property's value, and then either repay the cash with interest and take back your property or you forfeit the property to the pawn broker to sell.
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  6. #406
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Wrong. Foreclosure is not a penalty; it is a means to satisfy a loan



    And I'd be interested in seeing the wording that describes them as "penalties"
    Proving my point from a previous post. The only way you can relieve the burden of guilt from your own conscience is to disassociate the act from you (and in this post even narrow it absurdly to only one type of loan). Try as you might, it doesn't work. You have utterly failed.
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    You know, it used to be when you bought a politician, that son of a bitch stayed bought.

  7. #407
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The only thing I mentioned that is irrelevant is that the business in question is incorporated. It makes no difference at all how the business is legally seen or how it is put together as they are still run by people in all cases.
    It makes no difference who or what the other party is. A mortgage is a promissory note. It is a written promise to repay the loan. Refusal to do as one promises is immoral and rationalizing that it's OK to renege on your promises if it's just a business instead of a person doesn't change the immorality of refusing to do what one agrees to do as a condition of a mutually beneficial agreement that one enters into willingly.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  8. #408
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    By the way. If this thread doesn't explain why banks want LARGE down payments, nothing does. There are obviously so many people that feel no moral obligation to pay back their loans that it is extremely risky to loan money to people without enough secured collateral to cover the loan and all the court and administration costs required to recover the losses from these deadbeats.

    Remember that the next time we bitch that banks are too tight with their loan conditions or that the government needs to make home ownership "more accessible" to everyone. Taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for deadbeats defaulting any more than banks should.

    My belief that people are, basically honest and good, is something I am going to have to reconsider.
    It would be interesting to flip the situation and ask if it is morally OK to promise to pay a pension and then, for completely financial reasons, declare bankruptcy and simply walk away. Many seem to see this as a valid "fix" for social security, yet somehow not for Detroit.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #409
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    My belief that people are, basically honest and good, is something I am going to have to reconsider.
    I lost faith in people so many years ago now. Politics has a tendency to show peoples true colors, so spending more than sixteen years on forums like this one has definitely changed how I see people. Though in the early days I was just a kid trying to figure out what exactly he believed, so its not like I had much of an idea of how people really were in the first place.

  10. #410
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Looks like the sanctimonious lies are really piling up now
    Don't be so hard on yourself.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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