View Poll Results: Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

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  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    110 34.48%
  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    209 65.52%
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Thread: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

  1. #391
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    And it is widespread. This thread tells me that an inordinate amount of people don't consider it important to keep their word or fulfill obligations they accept. Their word means nothing and they cannot be trusted. It is all about integrity and character and this thread indicates that political lean is a good clue about those things.
    This thread saddens me. I guess it shouldn't, as I should be used to gross rationalizations, but it does.

    People are bending over backwards to disassociate themselves from the act of borrowing. By their reasoning (spin, really), if the act of borrowing is a separate act, then it is "amoral" because a non-human act doesn't have a conscience. The non-human act can do whatever it wants. That leaves their conscience free and clear.

    Problem is, the issue doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with the act specifically, and everything to do with one's own promise to repay*. The promise on on YOU, and only you. They're only kidding themselves when they try to spin it away.

    This mindset is not unlike the thinking behind civil asset forfeiture. The person doesn't have to be burdened with guilt/innocence. No, the property is guilty. This is the only way they... enforcers in this case... can spin it wildly enough to justify it in their own conscience.

    Point 2: Prior to this thread I would not have guessed that political lean would be so definitive on an issue like this. That has been eye-opening.


    *- Disclaimer: Dire circumstances requiring bankruptcy and similar not included. There are legitimate times when circumstances spin out of a person's control, but those are the exception, not the general rule.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
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  2. #392
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    A corporation is a legal entity by defination, but it is also a business and like all businesses it is run by people.
    I just stated that. But it is an irrelevant detail as they are employees and not the corporation

  3. #393
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    My belief that people are, basically honest and good, is something I am going to have to reconsider.
    Quote for truth. Like I said in my previous post, this thread saddens me.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  4. #394
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    If you go into the transaction with the view, as espoused by you, that walking away is "satisfying" your obligations, then you are indeed entering into fraud
    This is another lie.

    Fraud requires a lie about a material fact. When I have applied for loans, no bank has ever asked for my opinion, so my taking a loan was not faudulent

    Looks like the sanctimonious lies are really piling up now
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #395
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    1. I would feel morally obligated if I promised the owner
    2. I would feel morally obligated
    3. How many employees and what type of employees? Is it joint ownership? I cannot answer that question due to a lack of detail.
    4. I would feel morally obligated so long as that manager remained employed there and could be harmed by my actions.
    Thanks for answering them all.

    Do you honestly think that if someone in a bank goes out on a limb to give you a loan and then you reneg, that this will not cause him/her great hardship if they get fired because they went out on a limb for you? Not a family friend, just a person who had a good 'gut feeling' about you?
    This person with this faceless corporation will now lose his job and will have great difficult supporting his stay-at-home wife and their baby girl who has medical problems...because he trusted you yet you felt no obligation to do what you said you would do.

    There is no such thing as a faceless corporation or corporations have no soul. The people within the corporation have souls.

    I have known many mooches who would not pay back companies with that old cop out line 'they are a big corporation' or 'they can afford it' or some other cop out response.

    When what they are really saying is - 'don't trust me, I am not someone who honors his obligations unless I feel like it.'

  6. #396
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Foreclosure does not require the lender to go to court.

    The lies are beginning to pile up
    The irony is strong with you.

    Foreclosure is a legal process in which a lender attempts to recover the balance of a loan from a borrower who has stopped making payments to the lender by forcing the sale of the asset used as the collateral for the loan.[1]

    Formally, a mortgage lender (mortgagee), or other lienholder, obtains a termination of a mortgage borrower (mortgagor)'s equitable right of redemption, either by court order or by operation of law (after following a specific statutory procedure).[2]
    The above quote from Wikipedia is QUITE correct.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    I just stated that. But it is an irrelevant detail as they are employees and not the corporation
    The only thing I mentioned that is irrelevant is that the business in question is incorporated. It makes no difference at all how the business is legally seen or how it is put together as they are still run by people in all cases.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Thanks for answering them all.

    Do you honestly think that if someone in a bank goes out on a limb to give you a loan and then you reneg, that this will not cause him/her great hardship if they get fired because they went out on a limb for you? Not a family friend, just a person who had a good 'gut feeling' about you?
    This person with this faceless corporation will now lose his job and will have great difficult supporting his stay-at-home wife and their baby girl you has medical problems...because he trusted you yet you felt no obligation to do what you said you would do.

    There is no such thing as a faceless corporation or corporations have no soul. The people within the corporation have souls.

    I have known many mooches who would not pay back companies with that old cop out line 'they are a big corporation' or 'they can afford it' or some other cop out response.

    When what they are really saying is - 'don't trust me, I am not someone who honors his obligations unless I feel like it.'
    If I were in a situation where someone would have to stick their neck out that far I would not take the loan unless the only other option is disaster for my children (I've lived through personal disaster and rebuilt it does not scare me). That would be a personal favor and I would feel a level of obligation to that person that would be far greater than any affection I feel for myself and act accordingly and very likely try to give him back far more than I got and probably be there for him for the rest of his life. That is a very serious situation but ultimately money is just the vehicle for what truly happened which is a great act of love and sacrifice. So I would pay back the money but be much more interested in repaying the love if that makes sense
    Last edited by tacomancer; 01-24-15 at 11:56 AM.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    This is another lie.

    Fraud requires a lie about a material fact. When I have applied for loans, no bank has ever asked for my opinion, so my taking a loan was not faudulent

    Looks like the sanctimonious lies are really piling up now
    Wow. You've got just as much character and honesty when it comes to accusing people of lying as you do when it comes to repaying debts you owe.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    The irony is strong with you.



    The above quote from Wikipedia is QUITE correct.
    Yes, it is correct so please note how it says that foreclosure can be accomplished by "following a specific statutory procedure"

    The lies you've posted are piling up
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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