View Poll Results: Is there a moral obligation to repay money you borrow?

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  • If you borrow money, you are morally obligated to repay it.

    110 34.48%
  • I feel no moral obligation to repay loans I've taken out

    209 65.52%
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Thread: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?[W:461]

  1. #231
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I was saying the system conflicts with your stated goals.
    Obviously but I am powerless to fix that and therefore accept it and try to live as morally as possible in a fallen world

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    The business model is to recoup losses from anyone else involved in the loans or doing business with the institution. Reneging on a load with a large institution by no means means that no one (outside the institution) is harmed.
    Its diffused enough that the harm is so minimized that it may as well not exist

    They lose far less than a penny and it averages out to nothing from individual actions but only matters in aggregate and all I can do is control my own actions as they create harm

    But thank you for giving a real scenario to consider unlike Ockham's farse of an argument.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 01-23-15 at 10:05 PM.

  3. #233
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    And then impossibility to pay means no payment gets made.



    No, though I did pay cash for my car--well technically check.



    Justification for what?


    Lending money always involves risk in the same way that setting up an ice cream cone stand involves risk.
    That's good. And justification is based on the moral argument, not the business argument/model. I was asking if it was morally justifiable to do so to a large institution rather than an individual...knowing that the loss would be felt by the individuals having dealings with the institution, rather than the institution.

    The risk is passed on to others with institutions. That is their basic business model.

    Not really meant only for you, you just framed your response in an open manner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  4. #234
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    Its diffused enough that the harm is so minimized that it may as well not exist
    Really? I dont feel that way about my health insurance or car insurance payments. They suck because of fraud and other people's accidents.

    I have no accidents. I'm still really healthy and never go to the doctor (knock wood, I shouldnt have written that).

    So IMO, not remotely minimized. And certainly not a moral argument. (Well it might be from your response...it's ok as long as it's just 'a little.')
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  5. #235
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    Obviously but I am powerless to fix that and therefore accept it and try to live as morally as possible in a fallen world
    What in the hell are you talking about? Your ideal system should be one that can reach your stated goals. Communism would call for mass killing of the population to work and even then only work like a hunter gather society.

  6. #236
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    tacomancer's Avatar
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What in the hell are you talking about? Your ideal system should be one that can reach your stated goals. Communism would call for mass killing of the population to work and even then only work like a hunter gather society.
    And now henrins paranoid side comes out...

    Oh well I guess this is the natural end of this once you lose rationality

    Good night I have no interest in your boring repeated stuff in probably over a thousand threads by now.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Really? I dont feel that way about my health insurance or car insurance payments. They suck because of fraud and other people's accidents.

    I have no accidents. I'm still really healthy and never go to the doctor (knock wood, I shouldnt have written that).

    So IMO, not remotely minimized. And certainly not a moral argument. (Well it might be from your response...it's ok as long as it's just 'a little.')
    They do matter I'm aggregate but I am not responsible for the actions of others. Let's say we share progressive as our insurance, the sheer amount of money I have to influence for you to see your premiums move a penny is more than I will ever own or ever care to own.

    I as a person present no harm to you as a person regarding this interaction

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    I think the discussion has taken some ugly turns and went a lil too personal...

    take some time..... chill out.... it's just a conversation.

    I wonder though... if a person doesn't see paying their loans as a moral obligation, but they still pay their loans on some basis other than morality, can we really declare them to be immoral?... they are acting in accordance to our morality, so determining them to be immoral just doesn't make much sense.

    but that brings another question to my mind... why the hell are the generally political persuasions abandoning their traditional arguments?.... libertarians denouncing self-interest and embracing morality.. liberals/progressives embracing self-interest while casting away morality.
    cats sleeping with dogs, dogs sleeping with cats... it's a madhouse round here


    in any event.. pay your bills... it's the right thing to do.

  9. #239
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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    And now henrins paranoid side comes out...

    Oh well I guess this is the natural end of this once you lose rationality

    Good night I have no interest in your boring repeated stuff in probably over a thousand threads by now.
    The only way to obtain your system is mass murder. That isn't paranoia, but an observation.

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    Re: Are you morally obligated to repay a loan that you take?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    I think the discussion has taken some ugly turns and went a lil too personal...

    take some time..... chill out.... it's just a conversation.

    I wonder though... if a person doesn't see paying their loans as a moral obligation, but they still pay their loans on some basis other than morality, can we really declare them to be immoral?... they are acting in accordance to our morality, so determining them to be immoral just doesn't make much sense.

    but that brings another question to my mind... why the hell are the generally political persuasions abandoning their traditional arguments?.... libertarians denouncing self-interest and embracing morality.. liberals/progressives embracing self-interest while casting away morality.
    cats sleeping with dogs, dogs sleeping with cats... it's a madhouse round here


    in any event.. pay your bills... it's the right thing to do.
    Because they don't want to have to deal with a judge or collections department. But I feel different about an electric bill, that's a good or service I consumed and not financial speculation placed an institution has agreed to with me.

    As for your second question. All ideologies are emotion based at their core and all the logic and rationality is self justification. This is the exact same reason conservatives are using the exact same arguments about being culturally overbearing that liberals used in the 80s. These arguments are simply a tool for the deeper emotional justification. The human mind isn't a rational machine.

    The real truth is that this forum is just biological interplay that is truly defined by our predisposed social instincts since birth.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 01-23-15 at 10:16 PM. Reason: A

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