View Poll Results: The #1 war determining factor is:

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  • Understanding the culture and the people of the enemy

    52 57.14%
  • Wealth to fund the war

    12 13.19%
  • Military strategy

    14 15.38%
  • Other

    13 14.29%
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Thread: Single most important factor in determining the outcome of a war.

  1. #81
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    Re: Single most important factor in determining the outcome of a war.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not opinion, fact.

    1) The American Revolution wasn't a guerilla war.

    2) The Mujahadeen didn't begin seeing success, until they were supplied with conventional weapons and training in conventional tactics.

    3) As I pointed out, The Viet Cong was destroyed in 1968.

    4) The Communists fighting against The Rhodesians won, but through attrition, not tactics. The free world turned its back on Rhodesia, while the commies had material flowing freely from The Soviets, Cuba and East Germany.

    Knowing all these details is very important. It damages your credibility when you make an erroneous claim that The Viet Cong was still in existence in 1976.
    On This Day: Saigon Falls to Vietcong, Ending Vietnam War
    April 30, 2011 07:00 AM
    by Shannon Firth
    On the morning of April 30, 1975, South Vietnam’s President Duong Van Minh surrendered to the Vietcong, ending decades of violence between the North and South.
    link

    Yes, making erroneous claims does damage one's credibility.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  2. #82
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    Re: Single most important factor in determining the outcome of a war.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Nope! I'm going by what you said, when you claimed that no other country suffered more than Russia. Would you like me to post your exact words?

    You never restricted your comments to battlefield casualties, alone.
    You might want to quote the exact words, and read them carefully for meaning...
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  3. #83
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    Re: Single most important factor in determining the outcome of a war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    link

    Yes, making erroneous claims does damage one's credibility.
    Surrendered to the Viet Cong?

    I thought you were educated; possess multiple degrees. Yes?

    Thee Tet Offensive in 1968 was the classic example of how you can lose a battle and win a war. Everything Gerald says about the military effects of Tet are true; from a straight military analysis Tet was a disastrous battle for the North. Every gain that the NV's made in Tet was retaken within about a month, and the NVA was badly hurt while the Viet Cong essentially ceased to exist as a coherent force.

    USS Clueless - The Tet Offensive
    https://books.google.com/books?id=Ka...tput=html_text
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #84
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    Re: Single most important factor in determining the outcome of a war.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Not opinion, fact.
    (0)Dont wanna discuss the Viet Cong anymore?
    1) The American Revolution wasn't a guerilla war.
    Part of it very much was because of the tactics of both the American Revolutionaries and Native Americans...

    2) The Mujahadeen didn't begin seeing success, until they were supplied with conventional weapons and training in conventional tactics.
    I would love you to prove that correlation, and they were mostly armed by the CIA, not a lot of training went out to most of the Mujhadden Warlord Leaders, and most of the "Mujhadeen" were mostly just villagers fighting to protect their village.

    3) As I pointed out, The Viet Cong was destroyed in 1968.
    Just because they lost the Tet Offensive does not mean they were "destroyed".. Immediately after the Tet Offensive they retook control of the countryside. They also had many sucessfull pushed in 1974 and 1975. If they "were destroyed in 1968" how did their offensive in the years I just mentioned happen?

    4) The Communists fighting against The Rhodesians won, but through attrition, not tactics. The free world turned its back on Rhodesia, while the commies had material flowing freely from The Soviets, Cuba and East Germany.
    Just because you receive foreign assistance does not mean it wasn't a guerilla war... Just because they won because of "attrition" does not mean the Guerilla war was not succesfful. They fought them so long that they lost the will to continue to fight.

    Knowing all these details is very important. It damages your credibility when you make an erroneous claim that The Viet Cong was still in existence in 1976.
    This is basic history...


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    Re: Single most important factor in determining the outcome of a war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You might want to quote the exact words, and read them carefully for meaning...
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Are you? No country was as brutally devastated as the Russia was...
    You might want to learn to convey your point more clearly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #86
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    Re: Single most important factor in determining the outcome of a war.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Surrendered to the Viet Cong?

    I thought you were educated; possess multiple degrees. Yes?



    https://books.google.com/books?id=Ka...tput=html_text
    and, if they ceased to exist "as a coherent force", how is it that they were around for President Duong Van Minh to surrender to in 1975?

    Could it be that they came together in the meantime to again become a "coherent force"?
    Or perhaps the writer of a blog aptly named the "USS Clueless" got it wrong?

    Or, maybe a combination of both? Anyway, the president of the now non existent republic of South Vietnam surrendered to the Viet Cong in 1975.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Single most important factor in determining the outcome of a war.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Part of it very much was because of the tactics of both the American Revolutionaries and Native Americans...
    Very little was assymetrical warfare. Conventional tactics decided the war.



    I would love you to prove that correlation, and they were mostly armed by the CIA, not a lot of training went out to most of the Mujhadden Warlord Leaders, and most of the "Mujhadeen" were mostly just villagers fighting to protect their village.
    Read Charlie Wilson's War and you'll learn a lot. Its one of many historical work as you should read.



    Just because they lost the Tet Offensive does not mean they were "destroyed".. Immediately after the Tet Offensive they retook control of the countryside. They also had many sucessfull pushed in 1974 and 1975. If they "were destroyed in 1968" how did their offensive in the years I just mentioned happen?
    Because they didn't happen. It took the commies 4 years to reconstitute enough strength to launch another offensive, which they lost.


    Just because you receive foreign assistance does not mean it wasn't a guerilla war... Just because they won because of "attrition" does not mean the Guerilla war was not succesfful. They fought them so long that they lost the will to continue to fight.
    I never said the Rhodesian Bush War wasn't a guerilla war. I saw simply pointed out that attention, not tactics won the war.


    This is basic history...
    Your knowledge of history is extremely wanting. Don't you have a fancy degree, too?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #88
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    Re: Single most important factor in determining the outcome of a war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    and, if they ceased to exist "as a coherent force", how is it that they were around for President Duong Van Minh to surrender to in 1975?

    Could it be that they came together in the meantime to again become a "coherent force"?
    Or perhaps the writer of a blog aptly named the "USS Clueless" got it wrong?

    Or, maybe a combination of both? Anyway, the president of the now non existent republic of South Vietnam surrendered to the Viet Cong in 1975.
    Because they weren't. No credible historian will say that they were.

    While there were Viet Cong troops in the NVA, some units even retained their identities, The Viet Cong ceased to exist as an independent fighting force.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Single most important factor in determining the outcome of a war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    link

    Yes, making erroneous claims does damage one's credibility.
    It appears we are seeing two definitions of the term Viet Cong. Apdst seems to mean this:
    "....The Viet Cong (also known as the National Liberation Front, or NLF), a South Vietnamese communist common front aided by the North, fought a guerrilla war against anti-communist forces in the region. The People's Army of Vietnam (also known as the North Vietnamese Army) engaged in a more conventional war, at times committing large units to battle. As the war continued, the part of the Viet Cong in the fighting decreased as the role of the NVA grew...."
    Wikipedia

    Others, including Shannon Firth in in your citation, seem to mean all communist Vietnamese fighters.

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    Re: Single most important factor in determining the outcome of a war.

    Not on topic, but interesting information from that Wikipedia entry on the Viet Nam war:

    "...In December 1960, the National Liberation Front (NLF, a.k.a. the Viet Cong) was formally created with the intent of uniting all anti-GVN activists, including non-communists. According to the Pentagon Papers, the Viet Cong "placed heavy emphasis on the withdrawal of American advisors and influence, on land reform and liberalization of the GVN, on coalition government and the neutralization of Vietnam." Often the leaders of the organization were kept secret.[40]

    The reason for the continued survival of the NLF was the class relations in the countryside. The vast majority of the population lived in villages in the countryside where the key issue was land reform. The Viet Minh had reduced rents and debts; and had leased communal lands, mostly to the poorer peasants. Diem brought the landlords back to the villages. People who were farming land they held for years now had to return it to landlords and pay years of back rent. This rent collection was enforced by the South Vietnamese army. The divisions within villages reproduced those that had existed against the French: "75 percent support for the NLF, 20 percent trying to remain neutral and 5 percent firmly pro-government,"..."
    Wikipedia

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