View Poll Results: Do "illegal" aliens have the same rights as citizens?

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    69 50.36%
  • No

    45 32.85%
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Thread: Do "illegal" aliens have the same rights as citizens?

  1. #91
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    Re: Do "illegal" aliens have the same rights as citizens?

    Of course. The Bill of Rights outlined pre-existing rights "endowed to us by our creator." So yeah, they have the rights. Whether or not those rights are legally respected on the same level as, say, a US citizen, is a whole different story.

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    Re: Do "illegal" aliens have the same rights as citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by foadi View Post
    Carrying capacity is dynamic. It changes along with improvements in technology and infrastructure. The US is nowhere near carrying capacity. Would be cool if the US had 1 billion people. Imagine Seattle with 10 million people? Or LA with 50 million. Would be magnificent. Maybe one day
    It's a horrifying vision, certainly not one supported by biology and the environment.


    And not shared by anyone that values open spaces with natural habitats (not grass and courts), the wildlife that currently shares such spaces, and privacy and peace and quiet.

    I live less than an hour outside of Seattle and I have those things....not the nightmare you envision.


    (And I have a Bach of Science in Natural Resources Management so I'm not just casually discounting your statement)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Do "illegal" aliens have the same rights as citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by foadi View Post
    If it is not a right that all US citizens have, then how is it relevant?
    Another poster deciding that answering a simple question is beyond them. Do illegal immigrants have the right to vote?
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Do "illegal" aliens have the same rights as citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    LA cannot support anywhere near that many people. Even if the court ordered re-watering of the Owens river was overturned they couldn't put near enough water down the pipes . And have you been to LA recently? Where will 50 million people go?
    Not concerned about water, with any luck this drought will get worse, which will force investment into a new generation of water infrastructure. LA can easily support 50 million people with the proper infrastructure. Kind of concerned about all the rain we've been getting this year, but fortunately none of it has been going to snowpack.

    As far as where the people would go, urban infill obviously. tear down the old single family homes and build mid-rise mixed-use multifamily. This is an ongoing trend and will continue for the foreseeable future, although I would like the speed up the process. It's also important to remember that LA already has relatively dense suburbs. The urban core could be a lot denser, though. Most places it don't even break 20,000ppsm. Pathetic.
    I don't have proof for any of this, but you have to wonder.

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    Re: Do "illegal" aliens have the same rights as citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    It's a horrifying vision, certainly not one supported by biology and the environment.


    And not shared by anyone that values open spaces with natural habitats (not grass and courts), the wildlife that currently shares such spaces, and privacy and peace and quiet.
    I love wide open spaces and all that hippie crap. I think green stuff is awesmoe. Or at least I prefer it to low density suburban development. A large population doesn't require you have to tear down the forest and kill all the koala bears and chihuahuas though. The Seattle urban area is 2,616.7km2 in area. Fairly large for only 3 million people. Now look at a place like Hong Kong. 7 million people in 1,104 km2. And the amazing thing? Only a small fraction of that land is urbanized, maybe 200km2. The rest is preserved as parks and green space.
    I don't have proof for any of this, but you have to wonder.

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    Re: Do "illegal" aliens have the same rights as citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by foadi View Post
    I love wide open spaces and all that hippie crap. I think green stuff is awesmoe. Or at least I prefer it to low density suburban development. A large population doesn't require you have to tear down the forest and kill all the koala bears and chihuahuas though. The Seattle urban area is 2,616.7km2 in area. Fairly large for only 3 million people. Now look at a place like Hong Kong. 7 million people in 1,104 km2. And the amazing thing? Only a small fraction of that land is urbanized, maybe 200km2. The rest is preserved as parks and green space.
    The Hong Kong area and waterways are terribly polluted. As I tried to point out, all green space is not equal.

    And yes, the business aspect of developers and development generally mean that the koalas and chihuahuas are driven out to make way for roads and houses. $$ talks, wildlife walks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #97
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    Re: Do "illegal" aliens have the same rights as citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    The Hong Kong area and waterways are terribly polluted. As I tried to point out, all green space is not equal.
    A lot of the air pollution is actually coming in from Shenzhen and Dongguan.
    I don't have proof for any of this, but you have to wonder.

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    Re: Do "illegal" aliens have the same rights as citizens?

    Illegal aliens are criminals. They have all the same rights criminals do, and only those rights.

    Legal aliens have human rights, but fewer civil rights.

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    Re: Do "illegal" aliens have the same rights as citizens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    It means everyone under the jurisdiction of American law.



    When We The People established it, there were no American citizens yet, because there was no America. And, of course, the preamble has no bearing whatsoever on the law, and I only talked about the Bill of Rights, not the constitution as a whole, which does differentiate between citizens and non-citizens. Although it does determine representation by persons, not by citizens, but I imagine that it's pretty hard to get illegal immigrants on the census. Either way, congress certainly can't pass laws prohibiting non-citizens from practicing their religions or denying them due process of law, so it's clear that some of the Bill of Rights applies, and no "originalist" nonsense can parse a word to say that any specific part doesn't.
    Originalist nonsense, what the hell are you talking about? Those people wrote the document.
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    Re: Do "illegal" aliens have the same rights as citizens?

    Some, not all. Not a professional legal opinion, just my view.

    I think there are certain things Americans are entitled to as citizens such as equal access to polls during elections. There are certain things everyone is entitled to such as a presumption of innocence until proven guilty when accused of a crime.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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