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Do the actions of ISIS and al Qaeda represent the veiws of all Muslims?[w:23]

Do the veiws of ISIS represent the veiws of all Islam.

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 13.6%

  • No

    Votes: 34 77.3%

  • Unsure

    Votes: 2 4.5%

  • Other

    Votes: 2 4.5%
  • Total voters
    44
Hatuey said:
You know, posting what heretic means, which nobody here has questioned doesn't make your assertions about what Muslims should do correct. YOU brought up the Arab Spring. YOU used it to further a point about what Muslims should do. If you don't want to discuss it because you've realized it has little to do with Islam, you're welcome to say so and come up with a better argument. However, the question still remains: What do you expect a fellah (that's not slang for fellow) in a Muslim country to do about what is happening internationally? I'll wait for your answer.
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Yes, you questioned it and said it wasn't even taking place with Islam and its heretics who Directly challenged the Saud's Ascension. So that is why it was brought out. You do understand the challenge, Correct?

I only brought it up,(Arab Spring) with regard to that BS about your Urban movement that you brought up while trying talk about the illiterate Muslims that are so far off the beaten path and into their daily lives.

Also you were already given the Answer when it was pointed out to you that hundreds of millions of Christians didn't even know about their heretics or what its leadership was doing. Just how could you not correlate.....What you started with. Yet they did eventually condemn their heretics.

What was difficult for you to understand of who and how they get their teachings from. No matter what country they are in. Which part of their Clerics going to Mecca didn't you get?

What Part of the Sunni Muslim leader's Words telling them to take back their Religion, that they were losing it couldn't you comprehend?
 
Hatuey said:
Oh, I've already made a post about this nonsense whenever a closet Conservative pretending to a centrist or independent questions where I stand on issues:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-media/202643-any-fox-news-fans-10.html#post1063668002

I've got 10 years of posts showing people I can side with both Liberals and Conservatives depending on the issue. I call people's bull**** arguments out when I see them. Are you mad that it's your turn?
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Lol I'm a closet conservative now? I love you "moderates". Anyone who isn't liberal, is conservative. My nephew calls anyone who doesn't agree with him, stupid. Same concept. Both immature.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
For ****s sake even the "radical Islamic" leader of Hezbollah condemned the attack. Hell Islamic leaders in Iran condemned it..
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Some right wingers analyze large groups as homogenous entities. They personal responsibility shtick only seems to apply when they want it to apply. As such, we get guys like CRUE CAB, who swears that all Muslims share the same ideas but Christians are different and distinct and where the more radical members of Christianity are "backwards", separate, and distinct, the rest of the world's religious groups all have a hivemind way of addressing things. The reality of course is that this simplistic way of understanding the world just exposes the double standard I've been discussing throughout this thread.
 
11Bravo said:
Lol I'm a closet conservative now? I love you "moderates". Anyone who isn't liberal, is conservative. My nephew calls anyone who doesn't agree with him, stupid. Same concept. Both immature.
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So now I am a moderate and not a party member? Lol, get your story straight. Or am I a moderate member of the moderate party? :lol: How about this, don't embarrass yourself and try to know who you're talking to before you try and put them on the spot. It usually saves you the embarrassment of not having a relevant response.
 
MMC said:
Yes, you questioned it
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Umm, I questioned your red herring concerning the Arab Spring. The truth is that it has nothing to do with what is currently going on the Middle East or for that matter have anything but a parallelity in common with other issues like those of terrorism. You proposed the urban networks that were created in the Arab Spring as a solution to the problem of terrorism. However, these networks were A) nationalized and B) not really connected by anything other than a general dislike of their respective situations. Again, that's why bringing it up is irrelevant. If you don't like that your solutions really have nothing to do with Islam or for that matter terrorism, just say so. People sometimes don't know what they're discussing when it comes to these national issues and they believe that name dropping actually will make them sound informed on the matter.
 
Hatuey said:
Some right wingers analyze large groups as homogenous entities. They personal responsibility shtick only seems to apply when they want it to apply. As such, we get guys like CRUE CAB, who swears that all Muslims share the same ideas but Christians are different and distinct and where the more radical members of Christianity are "backwards", separate, and distinct, the rest of the world's religious groups all have a hivemind way of addressing things. The reality of course is that this simplistic way of understanding the world just exposes the double standard I've been discussing throughout this thread.
Click to expand...

After reading this thread and some of the ignorance posted here, it just reminds me of this cartoon:
vsjudi.jpg
 
Hatuey said:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...-Muslim-leaders-denounce-ISIS-brutality-.html
U.S. Muslim leaders denounce Islamic State, pledge to dissuade youth from joining - The Washington Post
British Muslims Release Fearless Message to ISIS Members Who Use Religion as an Excuse for Violence
Mich. Muslim leaders call Islamic State 'crazy criminals'
Muslim and Christian Religious Leaders Unite to Denounce ISIS and Violence in Iraq... -- VIENNA, November 19, 2014 /PRNewswire/ --
Islamic Leaders: ISIS Are Not Muslims, They’re Criminals « CBS DC



Now, can you or can you not tell us whether your argument applies to Christians too?
Click to expand...



New York Times Columnist: I Hold Moderate Muslims Responsible for Terrorism, ‘To A Degree’

During an appearance last night on CNN, New York Times columnist Roger Cohen declared that he thought moderate Muslims were partially responsible for acts of jihadist terrorism, especially in the light of the recent attacks on French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.

“I do hold Muslims responsible, to this degree,” he told Don Lemon. “I don’t think we can solve this problem, Don.” Cohen called on moderate Muslims to fully denounce terrorists and their actions. “Until they speak out in that way, I don’t think we’re going to see much progress. And I think that’s a responsibility they have.”....snip~

New York Times Columnist: I Hold Moderate Muslims Responsible for Terrorism, ‘To A Degree’ | Mediaite






"I know most Muslim people would not have carried out an attack like this," Maher said, "but here's the important point: hundreds of millions of them support an attack like this. They applaud an attack like this. … When you make fun of the Prophet, you get what's coming to you. … This is a problem in the world that we have to stand up to.".....snip~

Bill Maher On Charlie Hebdo Attack: All Religions Are 'Stupid And Dangerous'




Bill Maher Doubles Down on Islam: ‘Terrorists and the Mainstream Share A Lot of These Bad Ideas’.....

The outspoken satirist hosted the 13th season premiere of his HBO talk show Real Time with Bill Maher on Friday night and doubled (and tripled, and quadrupled) down on the comments he made on ABC’s Jimmy Kimmel Live Wednesday night where, in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo massacre that saw 9 fellow satirists, two policemen, and a maintenance worker be murdered by gun and RPG-wielding jihadists, the comedian—as is his wont—didn’t pull any punches, saying, “hundreds of millions of [Muslims] support an attack like [Charlie Hebdo].”

“We’re Americans so we don’t want to single out people, but when you look at that list just since 9/11, then we had the Madrid bombings in ’04, London in ’05, Mumbai, the Kenyan mall, Benghazi, which was one of 20 cities that erupted when that movie Innocence of Muslims was on the Internet, ISIS, Boko Haram who killed an entire village this week, Pakistan last year killing all those kids at the school, Canada parliament, Australia,” said Maher. “What we’ve said all along, and have been called bigots for it, is when there’s this many bad apples, there’s something wrong with the orchard.”.....snip~


Bill Maher Doubles Down on Islam:
 
TheDemSocialist said:
After reading this thread and some of the ignorance posted here, it just reminds me of this cartoon:
vsjudi.jpg
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That's pretty much it. I've come to the realization that there are two incredibly radicalized sides. On one hand, you have a Western right wing who accuses Muslims who aren't taking time out of their day jobs to go demonstrating, of somehow supporting terrorism. Of course, this has ramifications like the justification of immigrant quotas, "racial" profiling of Muslims (I know, it's silly but such idiots exist), and well a general demonization of Muslims. On the other side, there are extremist Muslims who accuse moderate Muslims of being in cahoots with the West if they don't join terrorist organizations. The reality is that there are literally hundreds of millions of Muslims who aren't joining any terrorist organization and couldn't care less about terrorism or for that matter politics. Those that do, like the Muslims who participated along with Christians in the Arab Spring, are involved in politics on a national level and couldn't care less about what happens in the West because well, why should they care about what goes on in other countries?

The double standard comes into this expectation that Muslims need to do something about terrorism. As if the average Christian did anything about Christian terrorism, pedophilia, etc. It's a gotcha game and the only ones affected are the millions of Muslims who are damned no matter what they say or do.
 
MMC said:
New York Times Columnist: I Hold Moderate Muslims Responsible for Terrorism, ‘To A Degree’
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Repeating the same absurd assertions in the mouths of other people doesn't make them correct.
 
Hatuey said:
Umm, I questioned your red herring concerning the Arab Spring. The truth is that it has nothing to do with what is currently going on the Middle East or for that matter have anything but a parallelity in common with other issues like those of terrorism. You proposed the urban networks that were created in the Arab Spring as a solution to the problem of terrorism. However, these networks were A) nationalized and B) not really connected by anything other than a general dislike of their respective situations. Again, that's why bringing it up is irrelevant. If you don't like that your solutions really have nothing to do with Islam or for that matter terrorism, just say so. People sometimes don't know what they're discussing when it comes to these national issues and they believe that name dropping actually will make them sound informed on the matter.
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I never relied on it so it is a falsehood you come with about a red herring. Especially when trying to think for another. Not knowing what you were talking about in the first place. Which is why you cannot even figure out what is tribal to the Islamic faith and sharia law and even how that is spread.

Also I used it to point out one thing and one thing only. Which was how the Muslim Clerics used Social Media. Which again you just could not compute nor understand nor fathom.....since you were all caught up into that BS you came up with.

Then to top it off.....a Muslim Leader gives a speech about Muslims losing their religion, about those who are hijacking it. Yet you still cannot figure it out.

So all this red herring BS and what you didn't know.....has all been put on display. Next time try and talk about something you actually know about. Rather than try to play with terminology and partial truths, thinking you know something about National Issues.
 
Hatuey said:
Repeating the same absurd assertions in the mouths of other people doesn't make them correct.
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But that's just what you did with all your links. Remember now for each one you can show.....I can come with 3 others. Probably even more being in the industry. :roll:
 
MMC said:
I never relied on it so it is a falsehood you come with about a red herring.
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Here you are:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...eiws-all-muslims-w-23-a-4.html#post1064224664
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...eiws-all-muslims-w-23-a-3.html#post1064224562
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...eiws-all-muslims-w-23-a-4.html#post1064224664

You did in fact rely on the Arab Spring to make a case for what Muslims could do. However, the reality is that the Arab Spring was a bunch of localized struggles that only had regime change as a common theme. Even in neighboring countries the reality was that these revolts led to very different outcomes BECAUSE they were localized and tailored to fit each country's specific political condition. Look, you made a gaffe, now you have no way to distance yourself from it. I understand. However, just admit it. The Arab Spring as a reference to what Muslims should do is pretty absurd when one actually knows what the Arab Spring was about and how it developed.
 
MMC said:
But that's just what you did with all your links.
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Not one of my links was repeated. They were all different condemnations of ISIS by different groups. As a matter of fact, the post in question wasn't even a claim. It was fulfilling a request by another poster who asked to see condemnations of ISIS by Muslim leaders. I abided.
 
Hatuey said:
Not one of my links was repeated. They were all different condemnations of ISIS by different groups. As a matter of fact, the post in question wasn't even a claim. It was fulfilling a request by another poster who asked to see condemnations of ISIS by Muslim leaders. I abided.
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Whaaaaaaaat?!?!?? How DARE you even THINK that there might be Muslim leaders - including religious leaders - who might actually be against the attacks in Paris? Do you not know that all Muslims are bad everywhere all the time? We know this because Fox News says so!!!!

And whatever you do, don't EVER look at the list of nations as ordered by homicide rate, 'cause the LAST thing America needs to know is that MUSLIM third-world nations like Indonesia, Turkey, Morocco, and Tunisia all have much lower homicide rates than America does! That's just lies, all lies, 'cause all good Fox-News-addicted 'Mericans know that the streets in Muslim nations are full of thieves and murders where they prepare themselves nightly to afflict the locals with the...the...*gasp!* NUMBER SIX!

And what's the number six, you ask? That, sirs, is where they go a-ridin' into town, a-whompin' and a-whumpin' every livin' thing that moves within an inch of its life. Except the women folks, of course, 'cause they just rape the **** out of them at the Number Six Dance later on.
 
Hatuey said:
Here you are:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...eiws-all-muslims-w-23-a-4.html#post1064224664
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...eiws-all-muslims-w-23-a-3.html#post1064224562
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...eiws-all-muslims-w-23-a-4.html#post1064224664

You did in fact rely on the Arab Spring to make a case for what Muslims could do. However, the reality is that the Arab Spring was a bunch of localized struggles that only had regime change as a common theme. Even in neighboring countries the reality was that these revolts led to very different outcomes BECAUSE they were localized and tailored to fit each country's specific political condition. Look, you made a gaffe, now you have no way to distance yourself from it. I understand. However, just admit it. The Arab Spring as a reference to what Muslims should do is pretty absurd when one actually knows what the Arab Spring was about and how it developed.
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Again I only used the Arab Spring to validate that the Muslim cleric out Egypt used social Media. That's who I started with go back and read the post. That's how it was spread.

Here it is in your first link


Yes they joined in after their Clerics spread the word. Masses of them who didn't know anything at all. That's what I just pointed out with their Leaders of the Sunni Doctrine. Doesn't matter even if they understood fully what was going on. But they did Riot as told to do.

The Egyptian Sunni Cleric sent out word thru Social Media. The next day.....Pakistan, Indonesia, and several Countries(23 All Muslim Majority) all Rioted US Embassies and US Assets at the time. You can look it up. There was no mistaking what the Egyptian Sunni Cleric did. Which is why some wanted him to be taken into Custody. But as you recall, that wouldn't happen with Morsi of the MB.....snip~



Did you now want to change the order of the links you have up, Right here in this post. As clearly I stated this First. Which proves another point about terminology and the playing with it and or another's statements. Or going off on a tangent from something that was never there.
 
From your second link.


Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post

Did the Christian leaders and heretics end up being tried and condemned?

Put in Newspapers, taken into courts. Court Law and before Kings, and or some other Royal title.

All of it has relevance to what you said. But due to it not just following what you said. But due to some realities that you forgot with all that you were saying......Do their Clerics make the journey to Mecca? From whatever country?????

Is that not how they spread the Word for those that are illiterate. Has not the Taliban showed for generations on what knowledge is passed and how? How about those Indonesian Clerics that are Muslim?

Also did you forget the Arab spring? Did you forget how their Clerics used Social media to get in touch with each other in different countries. Imagine that!

What happened? How many decades do we have to be told.....how many have been taught by word of mouth from those regions of the world that lack in education. Which says nothing of those who are Highly informed and knows exactly what is going. Like the King of the Saud and Sunni!.....snip~



Once again using the Arab Spring to validate the use of social media!
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Whaaaaaaaat?!?!?? How DARE you even THINK that there might be Muslim leaders - including religious leaders - who might actually be against the attacks in Paris? Do you not know that all Muslims are bad everywhere all the time? We know this because Fox News says so!!!!

And whatever you do, don't EVER look at the list of nations as ordered by homicide rate, 'cause the LAST thing America needs to know is that MUSLIM third-world nations like Indonesia, Turkey, Morocco, and Tunisia all have much lower homicide rates than America does! That's just lies, all lies, 'cause all good Fox-News-addicted 'Mericans know that the streets in Muslim nations are full of thieves and murders where they prepare themselves nightly to afflict the locals with the...the...*gasp!* NUMBER SIX!

And what's the number six, you ask? That, sirs, is where they go a-ridin' into town, a-whompin' and a-whumpin' every livin' thing that moves within an inch of its life. Except the women folks, of course, 'cause they just rape the **** out of them at the Number Six Dance later on.
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Hmmm...I wonder if the consider this homicide when they report their numbers....

LiveLeak.com - Beheading in Saudi Arabia
 
Hatuey said:
So now I am a moderate and not a party member? Lol, get your story straight. Or am I a moderate member of the moderate party? :lol: How about this, don't embarrass yourself and try to know who you're talking to before you try and put them on the spot. It usually saves you the embarrassment of not having a relevant response.
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Slow your robe home boy. I asked you what policies make you a moderate and not a party member. You then accused me of being a conservative and refused to answer the question. It's very easy. Can you answer it now? Type out what makes you moderate. Very simple. The only one embarrassed is you....
 
11Bravo said:
Slow your robe home boy.
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How can I slow by robe? Ummm. No. You are indeed a closet conservative. Prove otherwise. :shrug:
 
MMC said:
Again I only used the Arab Spring to validate that the Muslim cleric out Egypt used social Media
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Yes and Muslims use social media every single day to condemn terrorism. You're reaching for straws now.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I know that. But I wonder who exactly believes the idea that Muslims act as one single population bloc?
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No one. This is an idiotic strawman that the more delusional leftists tell other delusional leftists about the right in order to morally preen.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I had tried to ask this question in a earlier thread but I did not make my implications clear enough.

This is the earlier thread http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/214812-should-united-states-implement-racial-profiling-muslim-americans.html

My question is this: do the actions of terrorist orginazation like ISIS and al Qaeda represent the entire Islamic faith, or are we able to distinguish between the militant fanatics and the uninvolved?
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All? No.


Way, WAY too many? hell yes.
 
Hatuey said:
Yes and Muslims use social media every single day to condemn terrorism. You're reaching for straws now.
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No I wasn't reaching for straws.....which is why I mentioned about the Egyptian cleric and some wanting him arrested. Right there from the School of Sunni Doctrine.

Oh and I never said that there wasn't Muslims saying anything about the Heretics.....I wouldn't have mentioned Sisi if I thought that. Whom I am in agreement with.
 
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