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Do the actions of ISIS and al Qaeda represent the veiws of all Muslims?[w:23]

Do the veiws of ISIS represent the veiws of all Islam.

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 13.6%
  • No

    Votes: 34 77.3%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 2 4.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 4.5%

  • Total voters
    44

The Arab Spring
.....the Arab Movement. Its a false idea from the get go.....as once again you don't have a clue as to how the message is spread, from those Clerics.

Lets see you put up those numbers with the ME and Africa together and see what amount of Muslims make up the Demographic.

Knock the BS off with the red herring crap. You were wrong on the Heretics gaining ground, wrong on they are not subjugating others, wrong about them not destroying others Culture and Religions. As it is real simple to use one incident from the Hebdo issue. To point out about all those illiterates that you were harping about. Yet have no ties to any Terrorists or Islamic Radicals, yet go and burn down Christian Churches and kill Christians. All due to hearing about what took place in France. Days afterwards.

Seems Sisi and Egyptian Muslim disagrees with you as well. Which is why he gave a speech in front of the Same School that BO peep showed up to give his wasted speech. To Tell those Sunni Clerics to get up off their dead asses and start preaching what Islam is about. To take back their Religion. To Speak out to the youth. To not allow those like ISIS, AQ Ansar Al Sharia, to gain control and dictate the course of Islam.

Take it back from who? Who was he talking about? You don't want to play with terminology and say Terrorists do you. Face the facts.....Islamic Attacks have increased throughout the entire planet. You want to play with terminology and call them radicals. That which they would call heretics too.

Also millions of Christians never participated in taking out the Radicals/Heretics in their religion too. Despite the reality that was in their face. 2/3rds didn't even know what was going on with the Leadership for their own religion. Same as the Hindus. So it will be the same for the Muslims. Except they don't have the excuses of those from more ancient times or time from the far past.

There are so many red herrings here it's almost impossible to address them all within 3000 characters, but I'll try. There simply isn't a takeover of Islam by "heretics" because the majority of Muslims don't even live within communities that have been taken over in any sense. The majority of the Muslim world is still going on about its day, buying groceries, going to school, watching movies, working their farms etc. That really is the "reality" of this overblown communal issue that you believe Muslims have. Now, it doesn't matter what Sisi (whoever that is) feels on the issue because well, there are literally thousands of clerics he doesn't deal with or for that matter have anything to do with.

Now, as per the rest of your quote, it's just another giant strawman which has little to do with your initial claim that what happened in the Arab Spring, which was a contained urban event defined by A) ethnicity B) political situation could be applied to a situation which you claim involves the majority of Muslims even though the majority of Muslims don't actually live in any of the places where these groups exist. If you want to continue believing that by throwing out a non-existence reformation of Hindu belief which never really happened as Hinduism and Islam regularly come into conflict in India, or a reformation of Christianity which - let's face it - only really happened in the old Christian world, you're welcome to. Just don't expect people with an understanding of this issue to take you seriously.

By the way, you've yet to answer my question: What can Ahmed the fellah in rural Egypt have to do about Islamic terrorism?
 
He wasn't arguing anything.

I'm not sure whether you actually read what is posted or whether you ignore what you don't like. In either case:

CRUE CAB said:
Belief is the same throughout. Maybe methodology has some differences. Same people, same beliefs.

That is an argument and what is in discussion. If it's good for Islam, it's good for Christianity.
 
Sure, just don't send a gay guy to do the polling. Since they have "morality police", and being gay is highly illegal in Islamic Sharia law, it could cause some problems! But yea, they're peaceful ;-)

Greetings, 11Bravo. :2wave:

Yea, they blindfold them, tie their hands behind their backs, and throw them out of second story windows while a large crowd watches. I don't recall the details, but do they then behead them if they're not "lucky" enough to die on the spot? :eek: Disgusting animals!
 
I know that. But I wonder who exactly believes the idea that Muslims act as one single population bloc?

I think it's OK for them to lie to the rest of us so, who knows. The certainly send mix messages.
 
No more than the actions of pedophile priests represent the views of Catholics, the actions of Warren Jeffs represent the views of Mormon, the actions of the phelps clan represent the views of Baptists, and so on.
Except, ie, Pedophilia is Not in Catholic Scripture, while ISIS IS closely emulating Muslim scripture and the cleansing/converting of the Arabian peninsula by Mohammed.
and Ironically on the Former point, Mohammed, of course, betrothed a 6 year old and consummated her at 9.


It's very hard to poll the muslims in the middle east. Millions live in extreme poverty and have never been asked a poll question by some guy from Gallup.
Of Course Not all, not even Most, Muslims live in the Middle East. Probably no more than app 1/3 do.
What an unbelievable reply.

Which only proves the adage about asking a 'goofy' question, get a ...
 
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So you are going to use some almost unheard of killings in some bassakwards nations as a bolster for your argument? As a catholic, we also have a leader that denounces such acts in public on a regular basis in front of crowds of sometimes millions.
 
Belief is the same throughout. Maybe methodology has some differences. Same people, same beliefs.

Heya Crue. Seems Sisi of Egypt has a different idea. He started with their Holymen of the Sunni Doctrine.

Addressing the assemblage of imams in the room, al-Sisi called for a "religious revolution" in which Muslim clerics take the lead in rethinking the direction Islam has taken recently. An excerpt (as translated by Raymon Ibrahim's website):


"I am referring here to the religious clerics. … It's inconceivable that the thinking that we hold most sacred should cause the entire umma (Islamic world) to be a source of anxiety, danger, killing and destruction for the rest of the world. Impossible!

"That thinking — I am not saying 'religion' but 'thinking' — that corpus of texts and ideas that we have sacralized over the centuries, to the point that departing from them has become almost impossible, is antagonizing the entire world. It's antagonizing the entire world! ... All this that I am telling you, you cannot feel it if you remain trapped within this mindset. You need to step outside of yourselves to be able to observe it and reflect on it from a more enlightened perspective.

"I say and repeat again that we are in need of a religious revolution. You, imams, are responsible before Allah. The entire world, I say it again, the entire world is waiting for your next move … because this umma is being torn, it is being destroyed, it is being lost — and it is being lost by our own hands."


Do you know why he went to the Sunni Holymen first?
 
Even if all Muslims were radicals, you couldn't prove it. So it's ridiculous to phrase the question in the OP that way. Even if all had extremist views, doubtfull all would take action. The situation is like this, there are sufficient numbers who are taking violent actions to profile those people. They need to be watch more closely, because there are enough that are willing to take very dangerous actions against Westerners. I don't care if not all 1.6 billion Muslims are blowing themselves up; enough are for us to take action. What prudent leader would set the threshold at 1.6 billion people? Let's not get silly.
 
There are so many red herrings here it's almost impossible to address them all within 3000 characters, but I'll try. There simply isn't a takeover of Islam by "heretics" because the majority of Muslims don't even live within communities that have been taken over in any sense. The majority of the Muslim world is still going on about its day, buying groceries, going to school, watching movies, working their farms etc. That really is the "reality" of this overblown communal issue that you believe Muslims have. Now, it doesn't matter what Sisi (whoever that is) feels on the issue because well, there are literally thousands of clerics he doesn't deal with or for that matter have anything to do with.

Now, as per the rest of your quote, it's just another giant strawman which has little to do with your initial claim that what happened in the Arab Spring, which was a contained urban event defined by A) ethnicity B) political situation could be applied to a situation which you claim involves the majority of Muslims even though the majority of Muslims don't actually live in any of the places where these groups exist. If you want to continue believing that by throwing out a non-existence reformation of Hindu belief which never really happened as Hinduism and Islam regularly come into conflict in India, or a reformation of Christianity which - let's face it - only really happened in the old Christian world, you're welcome to. Just don't expect people with an understanding of this issue to take you seriously.

By the way, you've yet to answer my question: What can Ahmed the fellah in rural Egypt have to do about Islamic terrorism?



Okay, lets get the terminology out of the way. So you are no longer confused by what Radical Muslims are and ISIS with their likes, Muslim Militants etc etc etc.


The era of mass persecution and execution of heretics under the banner of Christianity came to an end in 1826 with the last execution of a "heretic", Cayetano Ripoll, by the Catholic Inquisition. Although less common than in earlier periods, in modern times, formal charges of heresy within Christian churches still occur. Issues in the Protestant churches have included modern biblical criticism and the nature of God. In the Catholic Church, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith criticizes writings for "ambiguities and errors" without using the word "heresy". Perhaps due to the many modern negative connotations associated with the term heretic, such as the Spanish inquisition, the term is used less often today. The subject of Christian heresy opens up broader questions as to who has a monopoly on spiritual truth, as explored by Jorge Luis Borges in the short story "The Theologians" within the compilation Labyrinths.

==Islam==


The Baha'i Faith is considered an Islamic heresy in Iran. To Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb, Sikhs were heretics. Ottoman Sultan Selim the Grim, regarded the Shia Qizilbash as heretics, reportedly proclaimed that "the killing of one Shiite had as much otherworldly reward as killing 70 Christians." Starting in medieval times, Muslims began to refer to heretics and those who antagonized Islam as zindiqs, the charge being punishable by death. Medieval Muslim philosophers such as Avicenna and Averroes were condemned as heretics.

In some modern day nations and regions in which Sharia law is ostensibly practiced, heresy remains an offense punishable by death. One example is the 1989 fatwa issued by the government of Iran, offering a substantial bounty for anyone who succeeds in the assassination of author Salman Rushdie, whose writings were declared as "heretical".....snip~

heretic - definition - What is ?


Heresy is any provocative belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs or customs. A heretic is a proponent of such claims or beliefs.[1] Heresy is distinct from both apostasy, which is the explicit renunciation of one's religion, principles or cause,[2] and blasphemy, which is irreverence toward religion.[3]

The term is usually used to refer to violations of important religious teachings, but is used also of views strongly opposed to any generally accepted ideas.[4] It is used in particular in reference to Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Marxism....snip~

Heresy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Now that you have a real understanding as to what is taking place with Islam. You can start from here. Forget your Arab Spring, Arab Movement. Muslims in far away places. The concept of the illiterate has been dealt with. You were told how the word is spread. Your concept about those that don't know.....doesn't matter as it was explained how it was with other religions.

Moreover with what the Egyptian Sunni Muslim President was talking about.....you are not even close with your argument.
 
I had tried to ask this question in a earlier thread but I did not make my implications clear enough.

This is the earlier thread http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/214812-should-united-states-implement-racial-profiling-muslim-americans.html

My question is this: do the actions of terrorist orginazation like ISIS and al Qaeda represent the entire Islamic faith, or are we able to distinguish between the militant fanatics and the uninvolved?

I voted yes because while they don't represent the "entire Islamic faith" as you ask in the OP as opposed to the question in the poll, they do seem to represent at least a passing acceptance in most predominantly Muslim circles. When you have mass rallies in Palestine, Saudia Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, parts of Europe, celebrating the destruction of the World Trade Center towers and the hit on the Pentagon, you know there is tacit if not active support for the violence and destruction that these factions represent. It may be support that arises out of fear, but it is support nonetheless. When you have opposition voices in the faith being beaten, stoned, beheaded, etc. without even greater opposition, then the silence speaks volumes as well.

People don't like the mention of Hitler and the Nazis when discussing extremes but it's an apt analogy, at least in my view, as it relates to the dangers of being apathetic to a growing threat that feeds off your apathy and fear.
 
He wasn't arguing anything. He was referring to this:

ISIS executes 13 teens for watching soccer | New York Post

Muslims killing kids for watching "Western" programs.


Well if that wont work....there is Niger.


Five people were killed and churches set on fire in Niger in fresh protests against the French weekly Charlie Hebdo's cartoon of Mohammed, as France condemned the violence and asserted its commitment to freedom of expression. But anger mounted in several Muslim countries over the satirical newspaper's caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed, with a second day of rioting erupting in Niger, a predominantly Muslim former French colony. At least eight churches were torched and the French embassy in Niamey urged its citizens to stay at home. "In Niamey, the tally is five dead, all civilians," Niger's President Mahamadou Issoufou said in a speech broadcast on state television, as he appealed for calm.

A survey released Sunday however found 42 percent of French people thought publications should avoid running cartoons of Mohammed, and 50 percent favoured limiting freedom of expression on the Internet and on social networks, according to the poll for the weekly Le Journal du Dimanche.....snip~

Deadly anti-Charlie Hebdo riots as France defends free speech

Btw.....note: No AQ, no ISIS, No Terrorists. Just radical Muslims, huh?
 
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Greetings, 11Bravo. :2wave:

Yea, they blindfold them, tie their hands behind their backs, and throw them out of second story windows while a large crowd watches. I don't recall the details, but do they then behead them if they're not "lucky" enough to die on the spot? :eek: Disgusting animals!

Greetings Polgara! Yea that sounds about right....religion of peace.
 
I'm not sure whether you actually read what is posted or whether you ignore what you don't like. In either case:



That is an argument and what is in discussion. If it's good for Islam, it's good for Christianity.

I thought you'd say that. Sucks when someone posts the truth, don't it? ;-)
 
Except, ie, Pedophilia is Not in Catholic Scripture, while ISIS IS closely emulating Muslim scripture and the cleansing/converting of the Arabian peninsula by Mohammed.
and Ironically on the Former point, Mohammed, of course, betrothed a 6 year old and consummated her at 9.

Stoning people to death for various sins is in the bible. But the huge vast majority of Jews are not for stoning people to death for various sins.
 
I thought you'd say that. Sucks when someone posts the truth, don't it? ;-)

You thought I'd post his argument which you claim he didn't make? Ummm okay there.
 
You thought I'd post his argument which you claim he didn't make? Ummm okay there.

Question for you. What policies do you support that make you a "moderate", rather than being a party member?
 
So you are going to use some almost unheard of killings in some bassakwards nations as a bolster for your argument? As a catholic, we also have a leader that denounces such acts in public on a regular basis in front of crowds of sometimes millions.

No, no. You don't get to move the goalposts. You claimed that they were the same people with the same ideas. So I ask you, does this apply to Christians or not? Show us how consistent you are.
 
Okay, lets get the terminology out of the way. So you are no longer confused by what Radical Muslims are and ISIS with their likes, Muslim Militants etc etc etc.

...

Now that you have a real understanding as to what is taking place with Islam. You can start from here. Forget your Arab Spring, Arab Movement. Muslims in far away places. The concept of the illiterate has been dealt with. You were told how the word is spread. Your concept about those that don't know.....doesn't matter as it was explained how it was with other religions.

Moreover with what the Egyptian Sunni Muslim President was talking about.....you are not even close with your argument.

You know, posting what heretic means, which nobody here has questioned doesn't make your assertions about what Muslims should do correct. YOU brought up the Arab Spring. YOU used it to further a point about what Muslims should do. If you don't want to discuss it because you've realized it has little to do with Islam, you're welcome to say so and come up with a better argument. However, the question still remains: What do you expect a fellah (that's not slang for fellow) in a Muslim country to do about what is happening internationally? I'll wait for your answer.
 
ISIS doesnt even account for the views of "Radical Islamists".... You think ISIS, the Taliban, Islamic Jihad Group all share the same views?
 
No, no. You don't get to move the goalposts. You claimed that they were the same people with the same ideas. So I ask you, does this apply to Christians or not? Show us how consistent you are.

Didn't move anything. Christians world wide all the way to the top denounce such actions. Publicly and loudly.
Where is that loud public denouncing of ISIS by main stream Islamic leaders.
 
Question for you. What policies do you support that make you a "moderate", rather than being a party member?

Oh, I've already made a post about this nonsense whenever a closet Conservative pretending to a centrist or independent questions where I stand on issues:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-media/202643-any-fox-news-fans-10.html#post1063668002

I've got 10 years of posts showing people I can side with both Liberals and Conservatives depending on the issue. I call people's bull**** arguments out when I see them. Are you mad that it's your turn?
 
Didn't move anything. Christians world wide all the way to the top denounce such actions. Publicly and loudly.
Where is that loud public denouncing of ISIS by main stream Islamic leaders.

For ****s sake even the "radical Islamic" leader of Hezbollah condemned the attack. Hell Islamic leaders in Iran condemned it..
 
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