View Poll Results: Do the veiws of ISIS represent the veiws of all Islam.

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  • Yes

    11 18.03%
  • No

    46 75.41%
  • Unsure

    2 3.28%
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    2 3.28%
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Thread: Do the actions of ISIS and al Qaeda represent the veiws of all Muslims?[w:23]

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    Re: Do the actions of ISIS and al Qaeda represent the veiws of all Muslims?[w:23]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    There are so many red herrings here it's almost impossible to address them all within 3000 characters, but I'll try. There simply isn't a takeover of Islam by "heretics" because the majority of Muslims don't even live within communities that have been taken over in any sense. The majority of the Muslim world is still going on about its day, buying groceries, going to school, watching movies, working their farms etc. That really is the "reality" of this overblown communal issue that you believe Muslims have. Now, it doesn't matter what Sisi (whoever that is) feels on the issue because well, there are literally thousands of clerics he doesn't deal with or for that matter have anything to do with.

    Now, as per the rest of your quote, it's just another giant strawman which has little to do with your initial claim that what happened in the Arab Spring, which was a contained urban event defined by A) ethnicity B) political situation could be applied to a situation which you claim involves the majority of Muslims even though the majority of Muslims don't actually live in any of the places where these groups exist. If you want to continue believing that by throwing out a non-existence reformation of Hindu belief which never really happened as Hinduism and Islam regularly come into conflict in India, or a reformation of Christianity which - let's face it - only really happened in the old Christian world, you're welcome to. Just don't expect people with an understanding of this issue to take you seriously.

    By the way, you've yet to answer my question: What can Ahmed the fellah in rural Egypt have to do about Islamic terrorism?


    Okay, lets get the terminology out of the way. So you are no longer confused by what Radical Muslims are and ISIS with their likes, Muslim Militants etc etc etc.


    The era of mass persecution and execution of heretics under the banner of Christianity came to an end in 1826 with the last execution of a "heretic", Cayetano Ripoll, by the Catholic Inquisition. Although less common than in earlier periods, in modern times, formal charges of heresy within Christian churches still occur. Issues in the Protestant churches have included modern biblical criticism and the nature of God. In the Catholic Church, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith criticizes writings for "ambiguities and errors" without using the word "heresy". Perhaps due to the many modern negative connotations associated with the term heretic, such as the Spanish inquisition, the term is used less often today. The subject of Christian heresy opens up broader questions as to who has a monopoly on spiritual truth, as explored by Jorge Luis Borges in the short story "The Theologians" within the compilation Labyrinths.

    ==Islam==


    The Baha'i Faith is considered an Islamic heresy in Iran. To Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb, Sikhs were heretics. Ottoman Sultan Selim the Grim, regarded the Shia Qizilbash as heretics, reportedly proclaimed that "the killing of one Shiite had as much otherworldly reward as killing 70 Christians." Starting in medieval times, Muslims began to refer to heretics and those who antagonized Islam as zindiqs, the charge being punishable by death. Medieval Muslim philosophers such as Avicenna and Averroes were condemned as heretics.

    In some modern day nations and regions in which Sharia law is ostensibly practiced, heresy remains an offense punishable by death. One example is the 1989 fatwa issued by the government of Iran, offering a substantial bounty for anyone who succeeds in the assassination of author Salman Rushdie, whose writings were declared as "heretical".....snip~

    heretic - definition - What is ?


    Heresy is any provocative belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs or customs. A heretic is a proponent of such claims or beliefs.[1] Heresy is distinct from both apostasy, which is the explicit renunciation of one's religion, principles or cause,[2] and blasphemy, which is irreverence toward religion.[3]

    The term is usually used to refer to violations of important religious teachings, but is used also of views strongly opposed to any generally accepted ideas.[4] It is used in particular in reference to Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Marxism....snip~

    Heresy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Now that you have a real understanding as to what is taking place with Islam. You can start from here. Forget your Arab Spring, Arab Movement. Muslims in far away places. The concept of the illiterate has been dealt with. You were told how the word is spread. Your concept about those that don't know.....doesn't matter as it was explained how it was with other religions.

    Moreover with what the Egyptian Sunni Muslim President was talking about.....you are not even close with your argument.

  2. #62
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    Re: Do the actions of ISIS and al Qaeda represent the veiws of all Muslims?[w:23]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    I had tried to ask this question in a earlier thread but I did not make my implications clear enough.

    This is the earlier thread http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...americans.html

    My question is this: do the actions of terrorist orginazation like ISIS and al Qaeda represent the entire Islamic faith, or are we able to distinguish between the militant fanatics and the uninvolved?
    I voted yes because while they don't represent the "entire Islamic faith" as you ask in the OP as opposed to the question in the poll, they do seem to represent at least a passing acceptance in most predominantly Muslim circles. When you have mass rallies in Palestine, Saudia Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia, parts of Europe, celebrating the destruction of the World Trade Center towers and the hit on the Pentagon, you know there is tacit if not active support for the violence and destruction that these factions represent. It may be support that arises out of fear, but it is support nonetheless. When you have opposition voices in the faith being beaten, stoned, beheaded, etc. without even greater opposition, then the silence speaks volumes as well.

    People don't like the mention of Hitler and the Nazis when discussing extremes but it's an apt analogy, at least in my view, as it relates to the dangers of being apathetic to a growing threat that feeds off your apathy and fear.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Do the actions of ISIS and al Qaeda represent the veiws of all Muslims?[w:23]

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    He wasn't arguing anything. He was referring to this:

    ISIS executes 13 teens for watching soccer | New York Post

    Muslims killing kids for watching "Western" programs.

    Well if that wont work....there is Niger.


    Five people were killed and churches set on fire in Niger in fresh protests against the French weekly Charlie Hebdo's cartoon of Mohammed, as France condemned the violence and asserted its commitment to freedom of expression. But anger mounted in several Muslim countries over the satirical newspaper's caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed, with a second day of rioting erupting in Niger, a predominantly Muslim former French colony. At least eight churches were torched and the French embassy in Niamey urged its citizens to stay at home. "In Niamey, the tally is five dead, all civilians," Niger's President Mahamadou Issoufou said in a speech broadcast on state television, as he appealed for calm.

    A survey released Sunday however found 42 percent of French people thought publications should avoid running cartoons of Mohammed, and 50 percent favoured limiting freedom of expression on the Internet and on social networks, according to the poll for the weekly Le Journal du Dimanche.....snip~

    Deadly anti-Charlie Hebdo riots as France defends free speech

    Btw.....note: No AQ, no ISIS, No Terrorists. Just radical Muslims, huh?
    Last edited by MMC; 01-22-15 at 01:33 PM.

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    Re: Do the actions of ISIS and al Qaeda represent the veiws of all Muslims?[w:23]

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, 11Bravo.

    Yea, they blindfold them, tie their hands behind their backs, and throw them out of second story windows while a large crowd watches. I don't recall the details, but do they then behead them if they're not "lucky" enough to die on the spot? Disgusting animals!
    Greetings Polgara! Yea that sounds about right....religion of peace.

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    Re: Do the actions of ISIS and al Qaeda represent the veiws of all Muslims?[w:23]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm not sure whether you actually read what is posted or whether you ignore what you don't like. In either case:



    That is an argument and what is in discussion. If it's good for Islam, it's good for Christianity.
    I thought you'd say that. Sucks when someone posts the truth, don't it? ;-)

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    Re: Do the actions of ISIS and al Qaeda represent the veiws of all Muslims?[w:23]

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Except, ie, Pedophilia is Not in Catholic Scripture, while ISIS IS closely emulating Muslim scripture and the cleansing/converting of the Arabian peninsula by Mohammed.
    and Ironically on the Former point, Mohammed, of course, betrothed a 6 year old and consummated her at 9.
    Stoning people to death for various sins is in the bible. But the huge vast majority of Jews are not for stoning people to death for various sins.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Do the actions of ISIS and al Qaeda represent the veiws of all Muslims?[w:23]

    Quote Originally Posted by 11Bravo View Post
    I thought you'd say that. Sucks when someone posts the truth, don't it? ;-)
    You thought I'd post his argument which you claim he didn't make? Ummm okay there.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Do the actions of ISIS and al Qaeda represent the veiws of all Muslims?[w:23]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You thought I'd post his argument which you claim he didn't make? Ummm okay there.
    Question for you. What policies do you support that make you a "moderate", rather than being a party member?

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    Re: Do the actions of ISIS and al Qaeda represent the veiws of all Muslims?[w:23]

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    So you are going to use some almost unheard of killings in some bassakwards nations as a bolster for your argument? As a catholic, we also have a leader that denounces such acts in public on a regular basis in front of crowds of sometimes millions.
    No, no. You don't get to move the goalposts. You claimed that they were the same people with the same ideas. So I ask you, does this apply to Christians or not? Show us how consistent you are.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Do the actions of ISIS and al Qaeda represent the veiws of all Muslims?[w:23]

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Okay, lets get the terminology out of the way. So you are no longer confused by what Radical Muslims are and ISIS with their likes, Muslim Militants etc etc etc.

    ...

    Now that you have a real understanding as to what is taking place with Islam. You can start from here. Forget your Arab Spring, Arab Movement. Muslims in far away places. The concept of the illiterate has been dealt with. You were told how the word is spread. Your concept about those that don't know.....doesn't matter as it was explained how it was with other religions.

    Moreover with what the Egyptian Sunni Muslim President was talking about.....you are not even close with your argument.
    You know, posting what heretic means, which nobody here has questioned doesn't make your assertions about what Muslims should do correct. YOU brought up the Arab Spring. YOU used it to further a point about what Muslims should do. If you don't want to discuss it because you've realized it has little to do with Islam, you're welcome to say so and come up with a better argument. However, the question still remains: What do you expect a fellah (that's not slang for fellow) in a Muslim country to do about what is happening internationally? I'll wait for your answer.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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