View Poll Results: How much income inequality is TOO much income inequality?

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  • I am left-leaning, and there is too much income inequality right now.

    126 40.65%
  • I am left-leaning, and the current level is acceptable, but should not be higher

    1 0.32%
  • I am left-leaning, and I don't think there should be a limit on the level of income inequality.

    2 0.65%
  • I am a centrist, and there is too much income inequality right now.

    93 30.00%
  • I am a centrist, and the current level is acceptable, but should not be higher

    5 1.61%
  • I am a centrist, and I don't think there should be a limit on the level of income inequality.

    2 0.65%
  • I am right-leaning, and there is too much income inequality right now.

    66 21.29%
  • I am right-leaning, and the current level is acceptable, but should not be higher

    9 2.90%
  • I am right-leaning, and I don't think there should be a limit on the level of income inequality.

    6 1.94%
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Thread: So How Much Income Inequality is TOO Much Income Inequality?

  1. #1
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    So How Much Income Inequality is TOO Much Income Inequality?

    The news came out today that OXFAM found that by 2016, the richest 1% will control half of all the world's wealth.

    That begs the question, then - what level of income inequality do you believe should be the upper limit, if there should be any limit at all? And if there should be a limit, how would that be achieved, since this is obviously something that can't be mandated by governments?
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    Re: So How Much Income Inequality is TOO Much Income Inequality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    The news came out today that OXFAM found that by 2016, the richest 1% will control half of all the world's wealth.

    That begs the question, then - what level of income inequality do you believe should be the upper limit, if there should be any limit at all? And if there should be a limit, how would that be achieved, since this is obviously something that can't be mandated by governments?
    A progressive tax system, more you make, more you pay.

    Do the wealthy pay lower taxes than the middle class?

    The study, from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, found that "virtually every state's tax system is fundamentally unfair, taking a much greater share of income from low- and middle-income families than from wealthy families." It added that state and local tax systems are "indirectly contributing to growing income inequality by taxing low- and middle-income households at significantly higher rates than wealthy taxpayers."

    In other words, it said the tax systems are "upside down," with the poor paying more and the rich paying less. Overall, the poorest 20 percent of Americans paid an average of 10.9 percent of their income in state and local taxes and the middle 20 percent of Americans paid 9.4 percent. The top 1 percent, meanwhile, pay only 5.4 percent of their income to state and local taxes.

    You'll Never Guess Which State Has the Nation's Most Unfair Taxes - 1

    The study, published by the nonpartisan Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, finds the poorest 20% of Washington’s population pay almost 17% of their income in taxes, while the richest 1% pay just 2.4% of their earnings. The middle 60% of earners are taxed slightly more than 10% of their income.
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    Re: So How Much Income Inequality is TOO Much Income Inequality?

    According to Pareto's rule, the richest 20% should control 80% of the wealth in a stable economy. This is probably not the case today.
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    Re: So How Much Income Inequality is TOO Much Income Inequality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    The news came out today that OXFAM found that by 2016, the richest 1% will control half of all the world's wealth.

    That begs the question, then - what level of income inequality do you believe should be the upper limit, if there should be any limit at all? And if there should be a limit, how would that be achieved, since this is obviously something that can't be mandated by governments?
    There is no reason to be a limit other than the natural bounds of 0 and 100%. If you have a roof over your head and food to eat, the rest is a superfluous exercise in futility.

  5. #5
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    Re: So How Much Income Inequality is TOO Much Income Inequality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    The news came out today that OXFAM found that by 2016, the richest 1% will control half of all the world's wealth. That begs the question, then - what level of income inequality do you believe should be the upper limit, if there should be any limit at all? And if there should be a limit, how would that be achieved, since this is obviously something that can't be mandated by governments?
    The current level of wealth and income inequality has been created by our public policies. It's not something that is inherent in a free market. Our policies (minimum wage, death tax, income/capital gains progressiveness, credit ratings/requirements) have been structured so that the more wealth you have, the more you can lower your costs and therefore achieve a higher net rate of return on your assets.

    For example, the long-term capital gain rate is practically flat (15%) for all but the highest tax bracket, which it is then bumped up to 20%. That's why Warren Buffet (who derives all of his income from capital gains) has a lower tax burden than his secretary, because practically all of her income qualifies as ordinary income (which for ordinary income, $37K is where it jumps from 15% to 25%).

    Throw in the scalped death tax, and that's the beginning of old wealth families where you find out that Junior Jr. literally hasn't worked a single day in his life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    So How Much Income Inequality is TOO Much Income Inequality?
    In the last thread I pointed out that the "ideal" rate is debatable. For some economic actors the high levels of inequality is good (e.g. fund managers), and for some economic actors really low level of inequality is best (e.g. manufacturers of high-end normal goods).

    Regardless too much income inequality is the level at which (1) economic mobility is threatened, (2) consumers discretionary income is being squeezed and (3) it's affecting political institutions.
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    Re: So How Much Income Inequality is TOO Much Income Inequality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    There is no reason to be a limit other than the natural bounds of 0 and 100%. If you have a roof over your head and food to eat, the rest is a superfluous exercise in futility.
    Hi! It's the US economy here. Did you know that 70% of my GDP is made up of consumer spending?

    Meaning that I will choke and die in a spectacular firey fashion should the lowest four quintiles of Americans by income not have superfluous discretionary income.





    Edit: " Discretionary income is disposable income (after-tax income), minus all payments that are necessary to meet current bills. It is the amount of an individual's income available for spending after the essentials (such as food, clothing, and shelter) have been taken care of." - Wiki
    Last edited by brothern; 01-19-15 at 04:00 PM.
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    Re: So How Much Income Inequality is TOO Much Income Inequality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Declan View Post
    There is no reason to be a limit other than the natural bounds of 0 and 100%. If you have a roof over your head and food to eat, the rest is a superfluous exercise in futility.
    Well, I'm sure you have no problem giving up your computer and internet access, your refrigerator, your electricity, your ability to wash and iron your clothes, your car...and even access to public transportation. Just walk to work, right? That's not too much to ask of those who have to commute a half-hour or more by car to get to their work, is it?

    After all, most people in third-world nations do have a roof of their heads and food to eat - there's no good reason why we shouldn't live just like them, is there?
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  8. #8
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    Re: So How Much Income Inequality is TOO Much Income Inequality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    The news came out today that OXFAM found that by 2016, the richest 1% will control half of all the world's wealth.

    That begs the question, then - what level of income inequality do you believe should be the upper limit, if there should be any limit at all? And if there should be a limit, how would that be achieved, since this is obviously something that can't be mandated by governments?
    good. and one day, I hope the one percent unite rather than halving half supporting big government in a desire to get more power. and once united we can crush the idiotic socialist nonsense that wealth should be limited



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    Re: So How Much Income Inequality is TOO Much Income Inequality?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    A progressive tax system, more you make, more you pay.

    Do the wealthy pay lower taxes than the middle class?

    The study, from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, found that "virtually every state's tax system is fundamentally unfair, taking a much greater share of income from low- and middle-income families than from wealthy families." It added that state and local tax systems are "indirectly contributing to growing income inequality by taxing low- and middle-income households at significantly higher rates than wealthy taxpayers."

    In other words, it said the tax systems are "upside down," with the poor paying more and the rich paying less. Overall, the poorest 20 percent of Americans paid an average of 10.9 percent of their income in state and local taxes and the middle 20 percent of Americans paid 9.4 percent. The top 1 percent, meanwhile, pay only 5.4 percent of their income to state and local taxes.

    You'll Never Guess Which State Has the Nation's Most Unfair Taxes - 1

    The study, published by the nonpartisan Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, finds the poorest 20% of Washington’s population pay almost 17% of their income in taxes, while the richest 1% pay just 2.4% of their earnings. The middle 60% of earners are taxed slightly more than 10% of their income.
    this is crap for several reasons

    it mixes non progressive taxes with progressive taxes to argue that the entire sum of all taxes should be progressive

    it ignores the fact that the poor pay state taxes with money they have been given by the government and thus its net tax payers who are actually paying the taxes of the poor-not the poor themselves

    it also ignores the fact that the rich pay many more actual dollars for the same citizenship benefits as the poor but this study ignores that the value I receive for paying a half million a year in taxes is no greater than what someone on Public assistance gets from the government



  10. #10
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    Re: So How Much Income Inequality is TOO Much Income Inequality?

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    The current level of wealth and income inequality has been created by our public policies. It's not something that is inherent in a free market.
    And the task of stabilizing an economy through public policy has long been proved essential.

    Every time a truly free market has existed in human history, it led to manic speculation, followed by complete and utter economic collapse. No amount of silly libertarianism can refute this pattern.
    I fight against the ignorant, irresponsible, and/or closed-minded.
    This group is the worst enemy of America and its freedoms. It includes, but is not limited to, all Trump supporters.

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