View Poll Results: Do you believe in morality?

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  • Yes

    56 38.62%
  • No

    89 61.38%
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Thread: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

  1. #181
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncensored2008 View Post
    I put up a statement of morality to define terms.

    Essentially, I view the democrats as unethical. I hold this view because there is no dedication to fact or truth within the party. Lying is not only tolerated, it is encouraged, provided it serves the party. Among the core democrats, right and wrong are only measures of what promotes the party.

    In short, I view the democrats as unethical because the party operates as a sociopathic organization.
    This is spot on! The ends justify the means.

  2. #182
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    But I didnt say all killing. I suppose that I should have explained that but I thought you would not nit pick that point. And yes from a individual point of view you are correct. But if we analyze the entirety of homosapeins killing itself while justifiabley subjectectively is by in large taboo for the majority of humans. Any controlling group that practices actual genocide is viewed as being in the wrong. All nations have laws against murder. Every country in existence on Earth right that has a legit country has to a varying degree outlawed the act of murder. Obviously those laws are not applied equally and allow certain types of murder depending on many different beliefs worldwide. The underlying common is that all countries indeed outlaw it. And thats how its been historically.
    None are universal taboos though, things that every single person that has ever lived would agree were morally wrong.

    Oh, and I just noticed one of your questions from the previous post. I'm married to a Marine who did a tour in Afghanistan and another in Iraq. He has told me that he killed people. I've known people on the ship, particularly during Shock and Awe, who felt that simply being onboard a ship that carried and launched the planes that dropped hundreds to thousands of those bombs, ran those missions, that would lead to people being killed was enough to be an accessory to their deaths (I personally wouldn't go that far). Most people do not consider such actions as we took during Shock and Awe as morally wrong, although there is a good portion of people who would view much of those deaths as wrong. I also have several other relatives that have killed people, since I come from a military strong family.

    Actually, many people in Germany did not see Hitler's program of killing Jews as wrong. Historically, many societies viewed several different reasons of killing as morally right, particularly some that we would see as wrong today. Heck just look at honor killings. Not exactly something that the majority of Americans view as acceptable (for the most part), yet there are several other cultures that view such things as morally necessary and right, even wrong not to do.
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  3. #183
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    A few of our posters seem to think that those who have certain ideologies are moral nihilists. For example, they believe that liberals are moral nihilists and thus liberals believe that nothing is either moral or immoral.

    The definition of moral is below for purposes of this poll:

    moral: Concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior and the goodness or badness of human character.

    So the question is, are you personally concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior in regards to your own actions and the goodness or badness of your own character?
    I think much of the trouble in the world today can be boiled down to this multi-culturalism approach where no one's really wrong ... except us. It's this kind of thinking that allows the poison that is Islam to continue to seep into western society and will, in the end, destroy usurp European Culture and then we'll be fighting an Islam that is in control of the Middle East and Western Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Actually, many people in Germany did not see Hitler's program of killing Jews as wrong. Historically, many societies viewed several different reasons of killing as morally right, particularly some that we would see as wrong today. Heck just look at honor killings. Not exactly something that the majority of Americans view as acceptable (for the most part), yet there are several other cultures that view such things as morally necessary and right, even wrong not to do.
    This is exactly what I'm talking about in regards to Islam. Were today's society and media supplanted into the early 1930's, they'd be making all the same excuses for the Nazis that we do for Islam today. We know where that ended up, I wonder if we will realize the lesson in time to save us from disaster.
    Last edited by Hamster Buddha; 01-17-15 at 12:58 AM.

  4. #184
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Actually, many people in Germany did not see Hitler's program of killing Jews as wrong. Historically, many societies viewed several different reasons of killing as morally right, particularly some that we would see as wrong today. Heck just look at honor killings. Not exactly something that the majority of Americans view as acceptable (for the most part), yet there are several other cultures that view such things as morally necessary and right, even wrong not to do.
    This is exactly what I'm talking about in regards to Islam. Were today's society and media supplanted into the early 1930's, they'd be making all the same excuses for the Nazis that we do for Islam today. We know where that ended up, I wonder if we will realize the lesson in time to save us from disaster.

  5. #185
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Crack open a history book every now and then. You might learn something.
    Really? The history books back your claim? Would those be Christian historians by chance?

  6. #186
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    None are universal taboos though, things that every single person that has ever lived would agree were morally wrong.

    Oh, and I just noticed one of your questions from the previous post. I'm married to a Marine who did a tour in Afghanistan and another in Iraq. He has told me that he killed people. I've known people on the ship, particularly during Shock and Awe, who felt that simply being onboard a ship that carried and launched the planes that dropped hundreds to thousands of those bombs, ran those missions, that would lead to people being killed was enough to be an accessory to their deaths (I personally wouldn't go that far). Most people do not consider such actions as we took during Shock and Awe as morally wrong, although there is a good portion of people who would view much of those deaths as wrong. I also have several other relatives that have killed people, since I come from a military strong family.

    Actually, many people in Germany did not see Hitler's program of killing Jews as wrong. Historically, many societies viewed several different reasons of killing as morally right, particularly some that we would see as wrong today. Heck just look at honor killings. Not exactly something that the majority of Americans view as acceptable (for the most part), yet there are several other cultures that view such things as morally necessary and right, even wrong not to do.
    Well the people killing other people always rationalize killing people. I too come from a military family and no one sane kills without regret and it stays with them all of their lives no matter how justified the and needful the killing was. My grandpa was 7th cavalry philippines ww2 and my dad served in Vietnam, My brother was in Panama and many more plus a slew of friends in Afghanistan and iraq, a close friend that died in Iraq. The point of the question was that it was likely that you did know someone that has killed another human being, and that if you know them personally then you know that it is a hard thing to live with even when it was the right thing to do.

    We as a species are rational thinking being. We have a sophisticated brain capable of overriding the innate instinct not to kill other humans. Being that that our built in moral are located in the region of the brain that also houses emotions, indeed there is a lot of subjectiveness when it comes to rights and wrongs. If you notice I haven't been disagreeing with the subjectiveness of human morality. I have though been asserting that there is a innate knowledge of right and wrong. Right and wrong is going to be different in different types of cultures. The person who drains the water tank in the desert might well have sealed his own death. Elsewhere people may have paid him no attention. Environmental, social, and logistics play a large role in what is considered right and wrong. And on and on but to the victims who were killed undoubtedly the majority of them think or would have thought that their deaths were immoral. And many of their killers cannot sleep at night. Suddenly things seem less subjective.

  7. #187
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Really? The history books back your claim? Would those be Christian historians by chance?
    I'd suggest you do some research on the subject.

    Nothing I have claimed here is in any way controversial, I'm afraid.

  8. #188
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Well the people killing other people always rationalize killing people. I too come from a military family and no one sane kills without regret and it stays with them all of their lives no matter how justified the and needful the killing was. My grandpa was 7th cavalry philippines ww2 and my dad served in Vietnam, My brother was in Panama and many more plus a slew of friends in Afghanistan and iraq, a close friend that died in Iraq. The point of the question was that it was likely that you did know someone that has killed another human being, and that if you know them personally then you know that it is a hard thing to live with even when it was the right thing to do.

    We as a species are rational thinking being. We have a sophisticated brain capable of overriding the innate instinct not to kill other humans. Being that that our built in moral are located in the region of the brain that also houses emotions, indeed there is a lot of subjectiveness when it comes to rights and wrongs. If you notice I haven't been disagreeing with the subjectiveness of human morality. I have though been asserting that there is a innate knowledge of right and wrong. Right and wrong is going to be different in different types of cultures. The person who drains the water tank in the desert might well have sealed his own death. Elsewhere people may have paid him no attention. Environmental, social, and logistics play a large role in what is considered right and wrong. And on and on but to the victims who were killed undoubtedly the majority of them think or would have thought that their deaths were immoral. And many of their killers cannot sleep at night. Suddenly things seem less subjective.
    But you don't know why people really feel that regret. (And not everyone does for every person they kill.) So long as one person feels no regret, then that shows that there is something else at work here, but the fact that some only don't feel that regret when they feel their kill was justified. It shows that there is likely a factor based on cultural learning involved here rather than some innate instinct of morality pertaining to killing other people.

    You cannot prove this "innate knowledge" of right or wrong, at all. You cannot show that it would be anything more than learned reactions, learned guilt from being told that "killing is wrong".

    Another example: many people do not feel any regret or guilt from killing other living things, particularly things like bugs, but this isn't true for everyone. Some people feel very bad killing just a bug, possibly even as bad or worse than if they had killed a human for what they felt was a justifiable reason.
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  9. #189
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But you don't know why people really feel that regret. (And not everyone does for every person they kill.) So long as one person feels no regret, then that shows that there is something else at work here, but the fact that some only don't feel that regret when they feel their kill was justified. It shows that there is likely a factor based on cultural learning involved here rather than some innate instinct of morality pertaining to killing other people.
    That would be a false dilemma. All or nothing while completely ignoring the fact that the human body isnt perfect (including the brain). There are many diseases that affect the brain. people believe many different things and those beliefs have a huge affect on their emotional state. Take global climate change for example, some believe that our situation is dire and that anything to fix is acceptable including killing. Since we are a rational species such things as higher thinking abilities can override a innate instinct. There are also many other factors other than just believes that can override emotional morality. So there will never be a either or on things like regret ie morality.


    You cannot prove this "innate knowledge" of right or wrong, at all. You cannot show that it would be anything more than learned reactions, learned guilt from being told that "killing is wrong".
    Another example: many people do not feel any regret or guilt from killing other living things, particularly things like bugs, but this isn't true for everyone. Some people feel very bad killing just a bug, possibly even as bad or worse than if they had killed a human for what they felt was a justifiable reason.
    Yea and some people think that they can talk to plants. Actually the lack of appreciation for the feelings of others is what is known as a sociopath. Remorse isnt always a big emotional response to killing a living being. Some people are highly emotional and some are not and there is everything else inbetween. And the circumstances have a large bearing on the killers emotional state before during and after killing another human. If a parent accidently kills their child and that parent didnt have any emotional disorders, they are going to react in a big way. As opposed to a soldier killing a insurgent at a distance. It may way heavy at times but not really anything compared to the parents.

    Look it isnt that hard to prove that everyone that doesnt have a disease preventing them from having well defined emotions also have a moral compass. Recent work in cognitive science provides overwhelming evidence for a link between emotion and moral judgment. Press Release: Carnegie Mellon Researchers Identify Emotions Based on Brain Activity-Carnegie Mellon News - Carnegie Mellon University

    Questioning morals is like questioning emotions, because they are one in the same. Not everyone is afraid of the dark, yet we dont question the existence of fear nor attribute it to social constructs (social interaction can affect such concepts of what people fear, fear itself isnt reliant as a emotion on the social norm).

    When we look at moral standards it isnt hard to see the emotional correlations.

    The Moral Brain | Penn State University

    Patterns of neural activity associated with honest and dishonest moral decisions

    Again let me point out that I havenet claimed that outside influences have no affect on morals. It would be like trying to claim that outside influences dont affect other emotions.

    News - School of Medicine Blogs - Stanford University School of Medicine

  10. #190
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Yes, but it is my personal concept of morality, so I also recognize that my conception of morality is not compatible with everyone's worldviews.
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

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