View Poll Results: Do you believe in morality?

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    56 38.62%
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    89 61.38%
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Thread: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

  1. #121
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Its real.


    Just because something is real to you doesn't mean that it's real to other people.

    Lots of people claim to see flying saucers but I haven't seen one yet.

    I'm not saying that they don't exist, just that I haven't seen any.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 01-15-15 at 02:16 PM.

  2. #122
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Yes obviously some morals are subjective. However, humanity pretty much universally considers lying, stealing, and murder to be immoral.

    even lying , stealing, and murder are made to be moral in many many cases.

  3. #123
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    even lying , stealing, and murder are made to be moral in many many cases.
    Well the human capacity for rationalization knows no bounds.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  4. #124
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Well the human capacity for rationalization knows no bounds.
    ... agreed.... which further muddies the waters in regards to morality.

    morality is kinda useless to discuss... it's extremely complex and no one can agree on any the particulars..... we've basically rendered it useless as a concept through our dissections.

    it's like this thing we all pretend to believe in, but none of us agree on any of it.. and it changes from 1 second to the next, often on the same exact subject matter.... hell, we can't even agree with ourselves, internally.

  5. #125
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Yes obviously some morals are subjective. However, humanity pretty much universally considers lying, stealing, and murder to be immoral.
    Actually, this isn't completely true. All those things are actually quite subjective in themselves. Lying is not always considered wrong. Look at movies. Acting is a form of lying. Santa Claus, a lie. There are lies that are considered "fine" or "okay" in almost every (if not every) culture on the planet. Murder is the same way. It is unlawful killing. But then that means it depends on what is against the law. And which laws it goes against, which change with cultures and beliefs. Stealing depends on ownership which isn't always viewed the same to everyone. Do we really own the land? How much? Can we own words? Some would say yes others no to these things.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #126
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Are there people that frequent McDonalds that you would kill, just because they are there?
    What if someone released a deadly disease within that McDonalds that had no cure and the people were all trying to get out due to panicking? Do you allow them to exit or kill them all rather than risking spreading the deadly disease? It may seem straight forward and we should always try to save people whenever possible but not everyone acts rationally in such situations and they could prove to become a major risk to a much larger population. Maybe someone believes that the McDs is full of vampires and they have to stop them before they kill off or enslave humanity. To them killing those people (vampires) inside that McDonalds is not morally wrong since it would save a lot more people by doing so.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #127
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Not really. At least not if you're including human psychology in the mix, which is sort of the whole point. It's beneficial to everyone, including the individual for experiences and actions to be positive. Our ethics are, or should be, driven by our cooperative nature.

    Incidentally, this is why absolutism goes wrong so often. It denies our nature in favor of some sort of parental punisher or validation by the universe itself, freezing people in toddler-level morality of reward and punishment, and little else.

    How do I "live by a different standard," exactly? It's what I do or it isn't, isn't it? That sentence makes zero sense.
    I rarely say things that don't make sense...

    human psychology depends on the individual. It is advantageous to support a cooperative morality, but it also supports that you don't follow that morality when it doesn't suite you. What "suites" you depends on the individual.... you may really like being nice and cooperative and stick to your version of good behind closed doors... because that's what you want. You have a different standard for yourself because it is all dependent on what you want to do, what you rationalize... you are the ruler, you can be the exception if deemed so.... as long as it suites you.

  8. #128
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    I rarely say things that don't make sense...

    human psychology depends on the individual. It is advantageous to support a cooperative morality, but it also supports that you don't follow that morality when it doesn't suite you. What "suites" you depends on the individual.... you may really like being nice and cooperative and stick to your version of good behind closed doors... because that's what you want. You have a different standard for yourself because it is all dependent on what you want to do, what you rationalize... you are the ruler, you can be the exception if deemed so.... as long as it suites you.
    Not really. Part of how we're built to be that way is that it feels good to do it.

    But it's not as though being an absolutist or a dogmatist stops bad people from acting contrarywise. Pedophile priests and dogging moralists abound.

    The truth is, people will do whatever mental gymnastics necessary to justify whatever it is they do -- including build it into their absolutist framework.

    Absolutists are, ironically, the worst offenders in that respect.

  9. #129
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncensored2008 View Post
    Peruse the incomes of the legislators and you find that all of them are filthy rich - and that over all, democrats have about 30% greater wealth than Republican in the two houses.

    Now see, I thought for sure some clever communist would do the math and come back with "HEY, the Republicans in congress have more money," ignoring the Senate side that pushes the dims so far ahead.

    But I guess "clever" and "democrat" just don't go together. :dunno:
    How does a link showing that both Democratic and republican congress critters net worth is north of $1 mill show proof that the Democratic Party “systematically embraces deception and dishonesty as policy”?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  10. #130
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    Re: Do you have a personal concept of right and wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Not really. Part of how we're built to be that way is that it feels good to do it.

    But it's not as though being an absolutist or a dogmatist stops bad people from acting contrarywise. Pedophile priests and dogging moralists abound.

    The truth is, people will do whatever mental gymnastics necessary to justify whatever it is they do -- including build it into their absolutist framework.

    Absolutists are, ironically, the worst offenders in that respect.
    First off, any system based off of "feeling" is going to be rather prone to failure and fallibility from the get-go. After all, "feelings" are subjective. Objective standards are not.

    Quite frankly, I think you also overestimate the sway empathy actually has over human behavior in general. Outside of the (largely Christian derived) "moral" pressures and socio-cultural conditioning our current society tends to enforce, shockingly casual forms of cruelty actually tend to be the norm.

    Even in the highly advanced and "civilized" societies of the Greeks and Romans, for example, genocide, infanticide, chattel slavery, blood-sport, and even murder (if the offender was of the right social class) tended to largely overlooked in favor of their supposedly "utilitarian" benefits.

    Secondly, while absolutist moral codes might not necessarily prevent rationalization outright, they certainly do play a role in enforcing a certain conformity of thought and belief which make the work in question significantly harder. An absolutist who behaves in a manner contrary to their beliefs often has to basically psychologically torture themselves to do so (i.e. 'Catholic Guilt').

    A relativist, by way of contrast, makes up the rules as they go along, and ultimately has no one to answer to but themselves. They can often justify anything them damn well please, without feeling any pang of conscience over it whatsoever, as such.

    Again, given the general fallibility of human reason and empathy, that's really not a "good" thing. It basically represents a conflict of interests between ego and id, which id tends to win more often than not.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 01-15-15 at 07:00 PM.

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