View Poll Results: Has Saul Alinsky influenced your beliefs?

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Thread: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

  1. #81
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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    My point is that there is nothing new with leftism. Frankly, the left is better at tearing things down than doing anything substantive.
    And yet, as explained repeatedly, that it is not "righties" or "lefties", but strategies that have been around, and that, as explained in this thread, ALinsky was studied by those on the right as well, you still try and make it about "leftism".
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Consistency isn't really desirable for political pluralities. However, even when one thinks of "consistency" being a good thing, that's not what keeps libertarians hopelessly out of touch with the American public. Conservatives and liberals both value completely different ends and means. Libertarians are also incapable of carrying on a decent conversation with them in order to build bridges.

    That's why, again, why we shouldn't be impressed that libertarians somehow cracked the liberal code.
    Consistency is desirable for an ideology though. Its not JUST politics, its a mindset. I think a blend of conservatism/libertarianism is about right and in fact consider myself a conservative with libertarian leanings. The left is intellectually and morally bankrupt-its ideas have demonstrably failed, and they can't come up with anything new (its the same old rehashed class struggle and identity politics). Im tired of the rhetoric and I think most Americans are as well.

    The mid terms were just a preview, btw-the dems will lose the 2016 elections as well. Its the chickens coming home to roost.

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And yet, as explained repeatedly, that it is not "righties" or "lefties", but strategies that have been around, and that, as explained in this thread, ALinsky was studied by those on the right as well, you still try and make it about "leftism".
    Strategies first widely implemented by lefties, and still to this day associated with them. Keep in mind its not just the fights one decides to make, but also how they are fought that matter to people. And how the left fights is well, lacking taste.

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Strategies first widely implemented by lefties, and still to this day associated with them. Keep in mind its not just the fights one decides to make, but also how they are fought that matter to people. And how the left fights is well, lacking taste.
    When those strategies where first derived, there was no such thing as righties or lefties. Your ignorance of history is correctable. And since it is righties that have studied Alinsky specifically, hand out his book, refine and exploit his strategies, why is it the left is lacking in taste?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    When those strategies where first derived, there was no such thing as righties or lefties. Your ignorance of history is correctable. And since it is righties that have studied Alinsky specifically, hand out his book, refine and exploit his strategies, why is it the left is lacking in taste?
    Sometimes the things you say.

  6. #86
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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Consistency is desirable for an ideology though. Its not JUST politics, its a mindset. I think a blend of conservatism/libertarianism is about right and in fact consider myself a conservative with libertarian leanings. The left is intellectually and morally bankrupt-its ideas have demonstrably failed, and they can't come up with anything new (its the same old rehashed class struggle and identity politics). Im tired of the rhetoric and I think most Americans are as well.

    The mid terms were just a preview, btw-the dems will lose the 2016 elections as well. Its the chickens coming home to roost.
    I get that you think of yourself as a fusionist, but I'm letting you know that libertarians have trouble dealing with contradiction and paradox. There is both with fusionism (which is just fine). Consistency in ideology, really, is foolish. That's why libertarians have a lot of problems. It may feel good, but it won't once you are playing with real pieces. Yes, I know that 2016 is looking good for Republicans...I have said as much for a long time, and I am looking forward to voting for a Republican candidate that is not Rand Paul. That being said, let's not give the libertarians much credit at anything.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I get that you think of yourself as a fusionist, but I'm letting you know that libertarians have trouble dealing with contradiction and paradox. There is both with fusionism (which is just fine). Consistency in ideology, really, is foolish. That's why libertarians have a lot of problems. It may feel good, but it won't once you are playing with real pieces. Yes, I know that 2016 is looking good for Republicans...I have said as much for a long time, and I am looking forward to voting for a Republican candidate that is not Rand Paul. That being said, let's not give the libertarians much credit at anything.
    Wouldn't consistency in ideology be ideal? And yes there are paradoxes-take the example of foreign policy.
    And from a practical politics standpoint-I'd not dismiss them, they make up a sizable portion of swing voters/independents and may well make or break the election results. Plenty of time, though and even Rand Paul is "evolving".

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Wouldn't consistency in ideology be ideal? And yes there are paradoxes-take the example of foreign policy.
    And from a practical politics standpoint-I'd not dismiss them, they make up a sizable portion of swing voters/independents and may well make or break the election results. Plenty of time, though and even Rand Paul is "evolving".
    The main problem with consistency in political philosophy is that it is a metaphorical box that you're trying to put on top of the human condition and governance. It serves more to the satisfaction of the individual holding the belief than it does substantively address variance in human experience. Likewise, you're going to quickly find out that being so consistent isn't going to work at the polls. People's love affair with consistency fades when it is applied to them at ever-increasing rates.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    The main problem with consistency in political philosophy is that it is a metaphorical box that you're trying to put on top of the human condition and governance. It serves more to the satisfaction of the individual holding the belief than it does substantively address variance in human experience. Likewise, you're going to quickly find out that being so consistent isn't going to work at the polls. People's love affair with consistency fades when it is applied to them at ever-increasing rates.
    I think we have very different views on whats ideal. I'd love to see a political party that represents exactly what I believe not just personally but politically. Im not saying thats practical or likely-but it the dream.

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I think we have very different views on whats ideal. I'd love to see a political party that represents exactly what I believe not just personally but politically. Im not saying thats practical or likely-but it the dream.
    That would be more likely in Europe, where parties are more free to pick and choose their positions as they wish. Of course, when forming a coalition government, you still have to come to terms with difference to get anything done for the short time you have.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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