View Poll Results: Has Saul Alinsky influenced your beliefs?

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Thread: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

  1. #91
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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    That would be more likely in Europe, where parties are more free to pick and choose their positions as they wish. Of course, when forming a coalition government, you still have to come to terms with difference to get anything done for the short time you have.
    Thats true but those coalitions are fleeting. Less of substance gets done, and there is more conflict.

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I doubt that many on the right would readily admit to it, especially since he is now somewhat villianized by "the right".
    Then you're looking at it differently than how they do. There's a definite sense of "well, hit them back" on the right.

    But that's pretty recent, and still at the grassroots/lower levels. I can't think of any current national GOP leadership who has hopped on it.

    Logic and common sense kinda suggest that many did.
    :raises eyebrow: I think you are reaching here.

    We do know that both Adam Drandom, the head of Freedomworks, and Dick Armey have passed out copies of Rules for Radicals to their workers, and the Tea Party movement looks very much like an Alinsky type grassroots group(oh lord do they, something which would embarrass so many of them).
    Yeah. Post 2008.

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Right around the Contract with America.
    Now that's interesting. Got some support to that?

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The "power words" was my specific original thinking. Ironically, I did read the list and learned from it. Newt is right, how you speak about something does influence others. The idea that we should not learn from some people is one of those ideas I never could understand. Why is it somehow terrible that people learned from a successful community organizer?
    I suspect its because organized communities are less profitable, more easily marginalized.

    Divide and conquer and all that.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Now that's interesting. Got some support to that?

    ‘Language: A Key Mechanism of Control’

    So right around the Contract with America. That whole "permanent conservative majority" period of time. GOPAC.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    ‘Language: A Key Mechanism of Control’

    So right around the Contract with America. That whole "permanent conservative majority" period of time. GOPAC.
    ...this looks like it was aimed at controlling a majority party by getting them all on the same page. Which is why language is listed with "Agenda" and "Attitude". It's a couple of lists of poll-tested words. It's not sending out black-bag operatives to pretend to be odious members of the opposition, in order to color your opponent with their taint.

    I'm not really seeing Alinsky here, tbh, though I'm not much of a student of his - can you draw the connection in bright crayon for me?

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    I have met one person who has ever referenced Saul Alinsky. And he was an incredibly talented attorney who worked on behalf of a lot of downtrodden people who had been abandoned by the system and the laws that were supposed to protect them. Anyone who positively influenced him is probably okay.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...this looks like it was aimed at controlling a majority party by getting them all on the same page. Which is why language is listed with "Agenda" and "Attitude". It's a couple of lists of poll-tested words. It's not sending out black-bag operatives to pretend to be odious members of the opposition, in order to color your opponent with their taint.

    I'm not really seeing Alinsky here, tbh, though I'm not much of a student of his - can you draw the connection in bright crayon for me?
    I think you are trying to require a one to one comparison rather than acknowledge the more general adoption of whatever dirty tricks need to be used to win.

    And you know subliminal cognitive manipulation is more effective than simple political machinations. Variations on sun tzu.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I think you are trying to require a one to one comparison rather than acknowledge the more general adoption of whatever dirty tricks need to be used to win.

    And you know subliminal cognitive manipulation is more effective than simple political machinations. Variations on sun tzu.
    I think if you are conflating "Alinsky" with "prioritizing ends above ones' distaste for means", then you are making the same overly-simplistic comparison some on the right could be accused of. And being precise and deliberate in ones' language, similarly =/= dirty tricks.

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    Re: Does the work of Saul Alinksy influence any of your beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    I would bet Alinsky influenced more people on right than on the left. I never heard of the guy until a conservative told me about him.
    Then you and others have totally ignored the pasts of Obama and Mrs. Clinton.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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