View Poll Results: Should we flood the world with images of Muhammed?

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  • Absolutely

    358 27.10%
  • No

    571 43.22%
  • Seems childish

    1,112 84.18%
  • Waste of time

    856 64.80%
  • Tell me when and I'll do it for sure

    534 40.42%
  • other - please explain

    311 23.54%
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Thread: Should we flood the world with images of Muhammed?

  1. #111
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    Re: Should we flood the world with images of Muhammed?

    I favor keeping the internet clean .. thus .. no pics of Islams "hero" .

  2. #112
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    Re: Should we flood the world with images of Muhammed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    We simply will not see eye to eye on this. I see them as nothing more than part of the same French academic elite which depicted whites negatively when it suited them and that was about it. Their vitriol, as you correctly put it, was just a continuation of what has been done for the past 100 years when it comes to other people living on their land. They demonize Muslims, they dehumanize blacks, they attack Jews, just as their forefathers did and occasionally made a few jokes at their own expense. That's the reason I should be pretending that they were anything other than racists and homophobes? No. I'm willing to defend their right to do it, but I won't pretend that their speech was anything but what it was.

    Secondly, I do speak French and unlike most people here, as such, I'm not as quick to defend the content of the speech simply because they were attacked. That's what most people have done, they've never read anything in Charlie Hebdo, and yet they're quick to defend them when they constantly complain about the treatment of Christians by the American media. I find these kinds of stances hypocritical at best and a sign of a wider problem in media at worst. It's related problem where whites simply feel that occasionally making fun of themselves makes their racism acceptable to minorities. That's simply not true and no amount of free speech rhetoric can change that. As I said, I can defend their right to say it, but I won't pretend it was anything other than hatred in cartoon form.
    Well that's the thing. It was not occasionally making fun of themselves. It was week in and week out. Why do you think the government and most French politicians couldn't stand them? Believe me if was not because of the few Mohamed cartoons. It was for the similar crap that CH threw at them on a weekly basis. But, obviously, those kind of cartoons would not have made it into the headlines outside France and, the magazine itself not being readily available outside the country, I can understand how you would get the impression that they were constantly focused on minorities. For the record whenever they made fun of Muslims, it was in an Islamic extremism context and when they made fun of Jews it was to accuse them of thinking they were special and beyond criticism. I can't really think of any instances where they made fun of Africans in a racist manner, but then again I didn't read them regularly. I just happened to leaf through it occasionally at my sister's house. She's a huge fan for some reason that has always escaped me. Sometimes I wonder if she was adopted.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  3. #113
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    Re: Should we flood the world with images of Muhammed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Voltaire : I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
    Pretty much, Arcana and I are discussing this from the perspective of people who have actually seen the cartoons, and who speak the language, and have actually been in the culture. She believes that they were equal opportunity haters, I find that hard to believe given French culture and the hatred they espoused (most of which was veered towards other groups within France, you know the pas assez Français types). We both agree that they have a right to say it, we just don't agree on what to label the speech. I'm perfectly fine with calling it hate speech, protected hate speech, but hate speech none the less. She feels that occasionally taking potshots at whites makes their hatred towards those who aren't French enough seem more palatable. I simply do not. French leftist movements have proven time and time again that they do not care for culture, ancestry and tradition unless it is their own. Their allies in French Canada (the PQ) have proven the same with their latest attempts on Muslims as well as their attacks on anything less than Quebecois de Souche. That's just an ideology I can't endorse, even if I respect their right to have it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #114
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    Re: Should we flood the world with images of Muhammed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Pretty much, Arcana and I are discussing this from the perspective of people who have actually seen the cartoons, and who speak the language, and have actually been in the culture. She believes that they were equal opportunity haters, I find that hard to believe given French culture and the hatred they espoused (most of which was veered towards other groups within France, you know the pas assez Français types). We both agree that they have a right to say it, we just don't agree on what to label the speech. I'm perfectly fine with calling it hate speech, protected hate speech, but hate speech none the less. She feels that occasionally taking potshots at whites makes their hatred towards those who aren't French enough seem more palatable. I simply do not. French leftist movements have proven time and time again that they do not care for culture, ancestry and tradition unless it is their own. Their allies in French Canada (the PQ) have proven the same with their latest attempts on Muslims as well as their attacks on anything less than Quebecois de Souche. That's just an ideology I can't endorse, even if I respect their right to have it.
    Hatuey, this is precisely the type of people that Charlie Hebdo despised and made fun of the most. The people who go around parroting the rhetoric of the Front National, "la France aux Français!" and similar BS. Le Pen himself said "Je ne suis pas Charlie Hebdo". There is a LOT of bad blood there.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  5. #115
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    Re: Should we flood the world with images of Muhammed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Well that's the thing. It was not occasionally making fun of themselves. It was week in and week out. Why do you think the government and most French politicians couldn't stand them? Believe me if was not because of the few Mohamed cartoons. It was for the similar crap that CH threw at them on a weekly basis. But, obviously, those kind of cartoons would not have made it into the headlines outside France and, the magazine itself not being readily available outside the country, I can understand how you would get the impression that they were constantly focused on minorities. For the record whenever they made fun of Muslims, it was in an Islamic extremism context and when they made fun of Jews it was to accuse them of thinking they were special and beyond criticism. I can't really think of any instances where they made fun of Africans in a racist manner, but then again I didn't read them regularly. I just happened to leaf through it occasionally at my sister's house. She's a huge fan for some reason that has always escaped me. Sometimes I wonder if she was adopted.


    Please, tell me in what possible context you'd find this to be anything other than racist? I mean, sure they took potshots at whites, but did they do based on the whiteness of the person? We can argue that they sometimes hit at whites, but we know the context and intended message wasn't the same.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #116
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    Re: Should we flood the world with images of Muhammed?

    Quote Originally Posted by spangledbanner View Post
    We Australians are not American or French and this type of thing is illegal in Australia. Charlie Hedbo could not have published his trash in Australia or he would have been arrested. We have laws that make his type of trash illegal. In Australia you cannot use media to insult or humiliate people.

    Do you French and Americans want to start insulting Aboriginals do you? If you have such freedom to be obnoxious then what is all the fuss over the Redskins logo?

    Is attacking African Americans with media an act of freedom and artistic expression? This is what the world has come to with USA leading and France as "the capital of the world" is it? You French and Americans have the right to be offensive, obnoxious and provocative and this is freedom is it? Well not in Australia. Us Aussies disagree with your uncivilized idea of freedom.
    Isn't it nice to be able to say that?
    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK

  7. #117
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    Re: Should we flood the world with images of Muhammed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post


    Please, tell me in what possible context you'd find this to be anything other than racist? I mean, sure they took potshots at whites, but did they do based on the whiteness of the person? We can argue that they sometimes hit at whites, but we know the context and intended message wasn't the same.
    Ah, yes. I remember this one well. This cartoon was drawn after some idiot from the Front National called Christine Taubira (the person in the caricature) a monkey. Note the logo, red white and blue flames at the bottom left of the drawing. That is the Front National logo. It was Charb, making fun of the racists in that party.

    As for the one with the Pope, that's their typical anti-religion crap, but I do agree this one is borderline racist.
    "Yes, but are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?".- Northern Irish joke

  8. #118
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    Re: Should we flood the world with images of Muhammed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcana XV View Post
    Ah, yes. I remember this one well. This cartoon was drawn after some idiot from the Front National called Christine Taubira (the person in the caricature) a monkey. Note the logo, red white and blue flames at the bottom left of the drawing. That is the Front National logo. It was Charb, making fun of the racists in that party.
    Yes, I am aware, that's why I asked you: In what context would you not find a repetition of said statement racist? I mean, if Obama got called a monkey by Stormfront, and Stan Lee decided to draw Obama as a monkey, would it not be racist? As I said, these cartoons when taken at face value are depictions of what the mostly White French cultural elite feel they are entitled to say because they occasionally make fun of themselves. I don't disagree that they have a right to say it, but I won't pretend it's not racist either.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  9. #119
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    Re: Should we flood the world with images of Muhammed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    In support of all victims of all islamic terrorist actions, should every single media outlet, publication, and private individual start printing/posting/publishing drawings of Muhammed?

    Think about it. If every single person/business/group/corporation with a facebook page, instagram, snap chat, blog, forum, and web page spent a week posting nothing but pictures of Muhammed would it make a statement?

    If every single non-muslim with the means to "protest" in this way banded together and posted pictures, it would number in the billions.

    Would it make any kind of difference? Would it resonate with the Muslim world at all?

    A world-wide grass-roots movement to collectively say "we're not going to submit to terrorist threats" and "we fully support the freedom of speech and freedom of the press/media". Would you participate?

    Is it time for every single non-Muslim to post a cartoon/drawing of Muhammed in a collective gesture of support, and defiance against violence?
    People are free to do as they like, but this would seem like quite the waste of time.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #120
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    Re: Should we flood the world with images of Muhammed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    People are free to do as they like, but this would seem like quite the waste of time.
    Maybe. Maybe not. I'm sure somewhere somebody thought the ice bucket challenge thing was a waste of time too.

    Who knows. A worldwide non-violent protest in the name of free speech might have a positive effect.

    The question is, would it make anything worse?
    Wastin' time, like it was free - Godsmack

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.

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