View Poll Results: Is racial discrimination sometimes justified?

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Thread: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Supposedly there is data that shows that when you compare people of similar socio-economic backgrounds, blacks still perform more poorly. Don't you think that indicates that they are less intelligent? Is it not reasonable to assume that blacks of a higher socio-economic status would have a home culture that would be conducive to educational achievement?
    What does the research say? There's been a multitude of research done on these questions. You can answer them for yourself. Studying that research will surely get you more expert questions than an informal survey of Internet people.

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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    There is no scientific study ever done which conclusively proves that people over the world from different races are of equal abilities - be they mental, physical or any other sort. If there is one that I am overlooking, I would appreciate being informed about it.

    Having said that, we as a people... we as human beings ... have adopted the belief that people are equal irregardless of evidence either way.

    So the more pertinent question is should we abort that belief in favor of the idea that people are NOT equal and some races, ethnic groups and nationalities are "superior" in some respects while others are "inferior" in other respects? And which respects will be considered as important?

    And if we then do decide to discard the willful belief in equality, what are the societal and legal and policy implications of rejecting the belief in equality?

    I do NOT think it is a purely speculative or academic question since history tells us what the result is. Slavery. Genocide. Exploitation. Abuse. Extermination. Mass murder.

    Our belief in equality is NOT scientifically based and cannot be proven to actually be scientifically based. But we tried it the other way and the results are not acceptable.
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There is no scientific study ever done which conclusively proves that people over the world from different races are of equal abilities - be they mental, physical or any other sort. If there is one that I am overlooking, I would appreciate being informed about it.

    Having said that, we as a people... we as human beings ... have adopted the belief that people are equal irregardless of evidence either way.

    So the more pertinent question is should we abort that belief in favor of the idea that people are NOT equal and some races, ethnic groups and nationalities are "superior" in some respects while others are "inferior" in other respects? And which respects will be considered as important?

    And if we then do decide to discard the willful belief in equality, what are the societal and legal and policy implications of rejecting the belief in equality?

    I do NOT think it is a purely speculative or academic question since history tells us what the result is. Slavery. Genocide. Exploitation. Abuse. Extermination. Mass murder.

    Our belief in equality is NOT scientifically based and cannot be proven to actually be scientifically based. But we tried it the other way and the results are not acceptable.
    So in other words, racial discrimination is sometimes justified.

  4. #24
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    So in other words, racial discrimination is sometimes justified.
    That is NOT the conclusion I would come to.
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That is NOT the conclusion I would come to.
    I wanted to see exactly what your position is.

    Ok. But if there is evidence to support the notion, then why would some amount of discrimination NOT be justifiable, at least at a personal level? If the differences are indeed there, it would appear that one would be merely dealing with reality as it exists. Don't you think to do otherwise would be unnatural?

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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I wanted to see exactly what your position is.

    Ok. But if there is evidence to support the notion, then why would some amount of discrimination NOT be justifiable, at least at a personal level? If the differences are indeed there, it would appear that one would be merely dealing with reality as it exists. Don't you think to do otherwise would be unnatural?
    several reasons come to mind and I am sure there are others:

    1 - Racial discrimination unfairly targets a race making individuals in that race recipients of treatment that they may not deserve having done nothing to deserve it.
    2 - it establishes that we will not treat individuals as individuals on their own merit or actions or record but on perceived qualities of a race which may or may not apply to them and may be irrelevant tot he treatment given to them.
    3 - it puts us on a very very dangerous path whose end is well established in history through things I have already mentioned such as genocide, slavery and other forms of systematic abuse.
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    several reasons come to mind and I am sure there are others:

    1 - Racial discrimination unfairly targets a race making individuals in that race recipients of treatment that they may not deserve having done nothing to deserve it.
    2 - it establishes that we will not treat individuals as individuals on their own merit or actions or record but on perceived qualities of a race which may or may not apply to them and may be irrelevant tot he treatment given to them.
    3 - it puts us on a very very dangerous path whose end is well established in history through things I have already mentioned such as genocide, slavery and other forms of systematic abuse.
    Ok, let's accept that. But don't you think that comes at the cost of ignoring reality, and thus acting in an unnatural way?

    Over and above that, if the distinctions are in reality there, will not the human mind pick up on the differences anyway, and at least, at a subconscious level, force the individual to discriminate?

  8. #28
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    So if there is some IQ differentiation, why is not some discrimination justified? Isn't that just dealing with the world as it is?
    No. The existence of different peaks on the various (to use your point of reference) bell curves does not justify individual discrimination based on a likelihood of a certain IQ - there is no overriding concern for safety, or any other kind of thing that might do so. The only possible venue I can think of would be positive, community-based discrimination - for example, programs aimed at encouraging reading among young children who may not get such encouragement at home might wisely be aimed where they are more likely to impact minority communities who are more likely to currently lack it.

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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No. The existence of different peaks on the various (to use your point of reference) bell curves does not justify individual discrimination based on a likelihood of a certain IQ - there is no overriding concern for safety, or any other kind of thing that might do so. The only possible venue I can think of would be positive, community-based discrimination - for example, programs aimed at encouraging reading among young children who may not get such encouragement at home might wisely be aimed where they are more likely to impact minority communities who are more likely to currently lack it.
    But why would some individual discrimination NOT be justifiable IF the differences do indeed exist?

  10. #30
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Ok, let's accept that. But don't you think that comes at the cost of ignoring reality, and thus acting in an unnatural way?

    Over and above that, if the distinctions are in reality there, will not the human mind pick up on the differences anyway, and at least, at a subconscious level, force the individual to discriminate?
    Everything has a cost. But the cost of an open policy of legal discrimination is one we cannot accept. The results - slavery, genocide, different types of systematic abuse are unacceptable.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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