View Poll Results: Is racial discrimination sometimes justified?

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Thread: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    So why do you think black children consistently score less than other children on standardized tests? Don't you think this indicates, that blacks as a group, are less intelligent than other races?
    I suspect it's a mix of factors, including cultural. I haven't looked at the statistics, but if you look at highly successful blacks, one of the common threads seems to be that they often had parents who were demanding and expected excellence from their children. I'm not sure that there's an actual intelligence difference. Maybe there is, and I'm unaware of it. Another thing of note, at least in my experience, is that the Africans (not African Americans) I have known, and there have been many, due to my field of work, is that they almost always excel in educational endeavors, and that also seems to be cultural in their countries of origin.
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It is not clear to me what you mean by "not as a broad blanket statement would show." Let me ask it like this, are you saying that data, such as that which has been put forward in "Bell Curve", which indicates that blacks are less intelligent than other races is wrong? There is also data taken from standardized test scores that consistently show that black children are at the bottom compared to other races. Are you saying that this data is wrong or flawed?
    The data is likely accurate. However, to assume 100% "nature" and no "nurture" would also toss overboard most of what we know about human development. Thomas Sowell, for example, has done some work demonstrating that - while as a group blacks score lower - if you measure only children raised in two parent homes in which the homes have books that are read to the child at a young age, scores are pretty much the same. In black society today, unfortunately, those factors are much less likely to be present, and it shows up in the scores. I would look at cultural shaping too - I had a friend in college tell me it was harder for him as a black guy to go to college than me, as a white dude. I protested that there were hosts of scholarships available to him that weren't to me. His reply has sort of stuck with me "yeah, but when you go home, your family doesn't assume you are a sucker for going to school." College was expected of me growing up. For him growing up, education was a "white thing", and he was looked down on for pursuing it.

    There might be some IQ differentiation as there is (for example) differentiation in height, body mass, vulnerability to disease, etc. But I would look to the nurture aspects of any significant IQ differentiation long before I would look to race-based genetics. Especially for Africans - who of all the ethnicities have the greatest genetic diversity.
    Last edited by cpwill; 01-10-15 at 10:35 PM.

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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    [QUOTE=MildSteel;1064180991]For whatever reason, we see that certain races or more prone to certain types of negative and/or illegal activity. Not only that, but certain books like the Bell Curve seem to suggest that certain races are less intelligent that other races. As such, if we are really to look at the world as it is, is a certain amount of racial discrimination justified?[/QUOTE]

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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I suspect it's a mix of factors, including cultural. I haven't looked at the statistics, but if you look at highly successful blacks, one of the common threads seems to be that they often had parents who were demanding and expected excellence from their children. I'm not sure that there's an actual intelligence difference. Maybe there is, and I'm unaware of it. Another thing of note, at least in my experience, is that the Africans (not African Americans) I have known, and there have been many, due to my field of work, is that they almost always excel in educational endeavors, and that also seems to be cultural in their countries of origin.
    Supposedly there is data that shows that when you compare people of similar socio-economic backgrounds, blacks still perform more poorly. Don't you think that indicates that they are less intelligent? Is it not reasonable to assume that blacks of a higher socio-economic status would have a home culture that would be conducive to educational achievement?

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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    There might be some IQ differentiation as there is (for example) differentiation in height, body mass, vulnerability to disease, etc. But I would look to the nurture aspects of any significant IQ differentiation long before I would look to race-based genetics. Especially for Africans - who of all the ethnicities have the greatest genetic diversity.
    So if there is some IQ differentiation, why is not some discrimination justified? Isn't that just dealing with the world as it is?

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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Is the above your opinion. I have bolded some.
    If you want to know what I honestly think, in terms of intelligence, a person is intelligent if he does the will of God and is not intelligent otherwise. By that standard practically all of us are unintelligent.

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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Supposedly there is data that shows that when you compare people of similar socio-economic backgrounds, blacks still perform more poorly. Don't you think that indicates that they are less intelligent? Is it not reasonable to assume that blacks of a higher socio-economic status would have a home culture that would be conducive to educational achievement?
    Just curious. What's the game you're playing?
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    For whatever reason, we see that certain races or more prone to certain types of negative and/or illegal activity. Not only that, but certain books like the Bell Curve seem to suggest that certain races are less intelligent that other races. As such, if we are really to look at the world as it is, is a certain amount of racial discrimination justified?
    Even if that is all true, which is not a point I'm actually conceding, it still isn't justified. There is a ridiculously high number of non-criminal intelligent black people for instance, and discrimination against an entire race would not be justifiable at all toward those people. Even if there is a slight difference in the bell-curves of different races, which again isn't something I'll actually concede to be true, it is not nearly enough to justify discriminatory policies toward an entire race.
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Just curious. What's the game you're playing?
    I am discussing the subject matter.

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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    Even if that is all true, which is not a point I'm actually conceding, it still isn't justified. There is a ridiculously high number of non-criminal intelligent black people for instance, and discrimination against an entire race would not be justifiable at all toward those people. Even if there is a slight difference in the bell-curves of different races, which again isn't something I'll actually concede to be true, it is not nearly enough to justify discriminatory policies toward an entire race.
    Let's look at it like this. Suppose a person reads statistics that state that blacks, relative to their numbers, commit a disproportionate amount of crime. He then goes out on the street and is robbed and beaten by a group of black males. Would he not be justified in practicing some sort of discrimination, at least in his mind, in the future?

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