View Poll Results: Is racial discrimination sometimes justified?

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Thread: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

  1. #101
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Let's look at it like this. Suppose a person reads statistics that state that blacks, relative to their numbers, commit a disproportionate amount of crime. He then goes out on the street and is robbed and beaten by a group of black males. Would he not be justified in practicing some sort of discrimination, at least in his mind, in the future?
    No. Because the percentage of black males who rob and beat people is still ridiculously low. It would be unjust for him to discriminate against black people as a whole due to that.
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I would probably either ask the person sitting next to me, or, if we weren't sitting in class, who seemed most open and available. The last decision might play into stereotypes, but I wouldn't be able to observe it and certainly wouldn't be able to decide to perform the act of discrimination because of it.
    Ok. It's just a hypothetical. You asked for one, I attempted to supply one.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Since we are looking at the question of justification, however, the two are unlike. Deliberate discrimination is the result of a decision-making process that can be said to be just or unjust.

    Unconscious discrimination (we tend to think that good-looking people are smarter) is not the result of a decision-making process that can be said to be just or unjust.

    This is particularly true if you are attempting to bring collected ethnic statistics (such as IQ scores) to bear.
    I disagree with you in the strongest terms. To support that, we need only to note the fact that many times racists don't feel that they are discriminating at all.

  3. #103
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    No. Because the percentage of black males who rob and beat people is still ridiculously low. It would be unjust for him to discriminate against black people as a whole due to that.
    So you are saying that it would be unjust for him to give pause if he sees a group of black males, based on the fact that they are black, even though he has direct experience of being treated cruelly by such a group? How will he be able to actually do this in his mind, because the mind relies heavily on past experience to make judgements about the present.

  4. #104
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I disagree with you in the strongest terms. To support that, we need only to note the fact that many times racists don't feel that they are discriminating at all.
    Ahhhhhh. That's what I was wondering when I asked what your game was. You could have simply stated this at the beginning of the thread, and saved some of us some time. I didn't figure it was really a question on your part, but just a leading of participants down the path of your choice.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Ahhhhhh. That's what I was wondering when I asked what your game was. You could have simply stated this at the beginning of the thread, and saved some of us some time. I didn't figure it was really a question on your part, but just a leading of participants down the path of your choice.
    I don't understand your point here at all. I have merely pointed out that discrimination does not have to be deliberate to be unjust. What in the world are you talking about?

  6. #106
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    So you are saying that it would be unjust for him to give pause if he sees a group of black males, based on the fact that they are black, even though he has direct experience of being treated cruelly by such a group? How will he be able to actually do this in his mind, because the mind relies heavily on past experience to make judgements about the present.
    It would be, yes. It could be a group of black seventy year-olds coming out of a church. Now if you want to narrow it down to a group of young tattooed black males in thug-like clothing walking toward you after dark then that probably would be justified. But at that point you aren't really discriminating on skin color, and you'd probably be apt to give pause whether they are black, white, hispanic, anything else.
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    I think that is a personal space issue with criminal behavior. The less mental space you feel, the more likely to erupt in violence. For instance, if blacks are all moved into one ghetto and discriminated against, they will lose mental space, they will not give themselves any person space to live, and develop angry feelings. This is especially true as they also discriminate against each other after so many years. If you think about your own feelings of hostility, you can see they are from having your inner space stolen by assholes and disrespected.

  8. #108
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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Ok. It's just a hypothetical. You asked for one, I attempted to supply one.
    I just think that you are trying to shove a square peg in a round hole here. Is there something in particular you are trying to drive at?

    I disagree with you in the strongest terms. To support that, we need only to note the fact that many times racists don't feel that they are discriminating at all.
    No - they feel that their discrimination is justified. Unconscious discrimination (for example, I am more likely to smile at women than men, but you don't realize it until afterwards) that is not the result of a decision-making process ("do I pick up this guy for a fare or not?" "Do I seek this guy's help, or that guy's help?") cannot be said to be justified or unjustified, because there is no decision made to take one action or another.

    Someone who is discriminating because they are (for example) a sexist would say something like : "Of course I hired Steve for the job over Susan. Steven needs to provide, but Susan is married now - as a woman it's time she started working in the home."

    The italicized is the justification that - he feels - is valid. Because women have the ability/responsibility to work in the home, they can be discriminated against in hiring decisions out of the home. That is a discriminatory decision-making process whose justification (or not) can be discussed. Implicit racism in rapid, unconscious choice-making not so much.

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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    It would be, yes. It could be a group of black seventy year-olds coming out of a church. Now if you want to narrow it down to a group of young tattooed black males in thug-like clothing walking toward you after dark then that probably would be justified. But at that point you aren't really discriminating on skin color, and you'd probably be apt to give pause whether they are black, white, hispanic, anything else.
    IF you say it is indeed unjust, I would put forward that not to do so is somewhat unnatural or perhaps unusual would be a better term.

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    Re: Is Racial Discrimination Sometimes Justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I just think that you are trying to shove a square peg in a round hole here. Is there something in particular you are trying to drive at?
    OK. I'm done with that example. You asked for one, I attempted to give one.


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No - they feel that their discrimination is justified.
    Sometimes they do. Some do not feel that they are discriminating at all. That is a fact.

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