View Poll Results: Do atrocities such as Abu gharaib fuel the escalating war on terror?

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  • Yes

    125 51.23%
  • No

    12 4.92%
  • Maybe

    56 22.95%
  • Other

    13 5.33%
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    38 15.57%
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Thread: Are we to blame? The relevancy of Abu gharaib in the escalating war on terror

  1. #21
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    Re: Are we to blame? The relevancy of Abu gharaib in the escalating war on terror

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    No, I do not. You are lying when you claim I place more blame on the people fighting terrorists.

    This thread was about whether Abu Ghraib added to this war. Another thread was about the entire blame and there I voted "all of the above" (which was including Muslim clerics).
    Before you call someone a liar, you need to be sure of what you said...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    And what is "all things" that are part of this war on terror? Or do you think extremist religion is not one of the things that fuels terror and thus the war on terror which leads to more terror (or so they try).
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #22
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    Re: Are we to blame? The relevancy of Abu gharaib in the escalating war on terror

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Before you call someone a liar, you need to be sure of what you said...
    Well, maybe you simply failed to understand what I wrote. It could be my fault, your fault or an innocent mistake. But to once again explain it:

    I said:
    Extremists religion is one of the things that fuels terror

    THUS (meaning "as a result of this")

    to combat the original terror (which is the starting point), there is a war on terror. During the war on terror things happened (even though it is not that important for extremist anger, these idiots would even have become angry if Abu Ghraib had not happened) that should not happen and they are being used to fuel the anger under Muslim youths, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

    So to make it clear again:

    1. extremists clerics (among others) leads to Muslim terror against the West

    2. thus the West has to responds and the war on terror begins (re-ignites what ever you want)

    3. the extremists (among them clerics) claim this is a crime against Muslims (even though it was not), they plan more attacks on the West. Which they do and they commit another heinous crime (like 9/11)

    5. thus (as a result of this) the West has to respond and invades Iraq and Afghanistan, during this continued war on terror Abu Ghraib happens.

    6. the extremists cry foul and plan more attacks (but as said, they would have been angry no matter how humane the troops would have been) and commit them.

    7. thus the West has to respond

    etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  3. #23
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    Re: Are we to blame? The relevancy of Abu gharaib in the escalating war on terror

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Of course the conservatives out there don't want to hear this, but YES, when we do stuff that is incredibly wrong - like torture, and like overthrowing democratically-elected governments and installing a puppet government (like we did in Iraq in the 1950's) - YES, our actions radicalize the locals and perpetuates terrorism against us.
    Mosah Degh wasn't democratically elected. He was appointed by the Iraqi parliament; the same parliament that he later dissolved. Therefore, we didn't overthrow a democratically elected government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #24
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    Re: Are we to blame? The relevancy of Abu gharaib in the escalating war on terror

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Well, maybe you simply failed to understand what I wrote. It could be my fault, your fault or an innocent mistake. But to once again explain it:

    I said:
    Extremists religion is one of the things that fuels terror

    THUS (meaning "as a result of this")

    to combat the original terror (which is the starting point), there is a war on terror. During the war on terror things happened (even though it is not that important for extremist anger, these idiots would even have become angry if Abu Ghraib had not happened) that should not happen and they are being used to fuel the anger under Muslim youths, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

    So to make it clear again:

    1. extremists clerics (among others) leads to Muslim terror against the West

    2. thus the West has to responds and the war on terror begins (re-ignites what ever you want)

    3. the extremists (among them clerics) claim this is a crime against Muslims (even though it was not), they plan more attacks on the West. Which they do and they commit another heinous crime (like 9/11)

    5. thus (as a result of this) the West has to respond and invades Iraq and Afghanistan, during this continued war on terror Abu Ghraib happens.

    6. the extremists cry foul and plan more attacks (but as said, they would have been angry no matter how humane the troops would have been) and commit them.

    7. thus the West has to respond

    etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
    There's no way to blame anyone, but the terrorists and their supporters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #25
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    Re: Are we to blame? The relevancy of Abu gharaib in the escalating war on terror

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There's no way to blame anyone, but the terrorists and their supporters.
    Except that you are the one who started with blame. I never mentioned the world blame. I was talking about fueling the fire, not blaming this that or the other.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  6. #26
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    Re: Are we to blame? The relevancy of Abu gharaib in the escalating war on terror

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Good thing Obama ended all that, yet the violence and hatred and the growth of the radicals hasn't slowed but only increased. Why is that? I mean Abu Gharaib was what? Ten years ago? Perhaps the increase in radicalism and growth of radical groups has less to do with that than it does drone strikes that have killed hundreds if not thousands.
    And if you'd do something completely different and actually research what's going on there, the growth of ISIS had little to do with the fact that we weren't there anymore and everything to do with the fact that the majority-Shi'a government was pushing all the Sunnis out of the government.

    There's a book you should read: "The Shi'a Revival" by Vali Nasr. Nasr was a professor at the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School, and the book was recommended reading for all U.S. Navy officers. In that book you find a quote by Zarkawi, who was at that time the 2nd-in-command of al-Qaeda under OBL. He says, "Keep up the fight against America and the Zionists, but remember that the real enemy is the apostate Shi'a."

    That's not an exact quote, but the meaning is precisely the same. We - America and Israel - are the EXCUSE. The real battle, in the eyes of Sunni extremists, is against the Shi'a (and, to a lesser extent, against all Muslims but are not Sunni - hence their attacks against the Kurds).

    Okay? Next time, please LEARN the issue first...because you're not getting all the necessary information that you need to make an informed decision if you only listen to right-wing sources and the MSM.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  7. #27
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    Re: Are we to blame? The relevancy of Abu gharaib in the escalating war on terror

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And if you'd do something completely different and actually research what's going on there, the growth of ISIS had little to do with the fact that we weren't there anymore and everything to do with the fact that the majority-Shi'a government was pushing all the Sunnis out of the government.

    There's a book you should read: "The Shi'a Revival" by Vali Nasr. Nasr was a professor at the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School, and the book was recommended reading for all U.S. Navy officers. In that book you find a quote by Zarkawi, who was at that time the 2nd-in-command of al-Qaeda under OBL. He says, "Keep up the fight against America and the Zionists, but remember that the real enemy is the apostate Shi'a."

    That's not an exact quote, but the meaning is precisely the same. We - America and Israel - are the EXCUSE. The real battle, in the eyes of Sunni extremists, is against the Shi'a (and, to a lesser extent, against all Muslims but are not Sunni - hence their attacks against the Kurds).

    Okay? Next time, please LEARN the issue first...because you're not getting all the necessary information that you need to make an informed decision if you only listen to right-wing sources and the MSM.
    Well, you wrote a lot of words, but really added nothing and didn't address what I said. So, next time try and focus and actually respond to the person you are quoting and not just ramble on with meaningless words and sentences. Dialing back the arrogance wouldn't hurt either.

  8. #28
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    Re: Are we to blame? The relevancy of Abu gharaib in the escalating war on terror

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Well, you wrote a lot of words, but really added nothing and didn't address what I said. So, next time try and focus and actually respond to the person you are quoting and not just ramble on with meaningless words and sentences. Dialing back the arrogance wouldn't hurt either.
    No, I responded quite well to your question...because your question evinced a very real lack of understanding of what's really going on over there. How can you possibly say what should be done if you don't really understand what's going on?

    You seem to be much like George W. Bush when a group of Islamic scholars went to him and tried to talk to him about the Sunni/Shi'a schism. He looked at them and said "What's the difference? They're all Muslim." Or words to that effect.

    Until you really understand what's going on over there, you can't know what should or should not be done.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  9. #29
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    Re: Are we to blame? The relevancy of Abu gharaib in the escalating war on terror

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    No, I responded quite well to your question...because your question evinced a very real lack of understanding of what's really going on over there. How can you possibly say what should be done if you don't really understand what's going on?

    You seem to be much like George W. Bush when a group of Islamic scholars went to him and tried to talk to him about the Sunni/Shi'a schism. He looked at them and said "What's the difference? They're all Muslim." Or words to that effect.

    Until you really understand what's going on over there, you can't know what should or should not be done.
    Since you seem to know all the answers, you go solve the problem. Why are you wasting your time posting here when you should be running the State Department?

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