View Poll Results: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

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  • NO

    179 84.43%
  • YES

    22 10.38%
  • OTHER

    11 5.19%
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Thread: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

  1. #1
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    Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

    Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?
    no
    yes
    other

    Until equal rights was given to gays in large ways, personally, Ive never heard this argument which i consider to be completely irrational, a simple fear tactic and conspiracy theory.

    I see no rational basis for this fear based on equal rights for gays since there are rights, laws, the constitution and countless court case precedences blocking something this stupid.

    I havent met one person that thinks churches should be forced and the reality is churches already (before gay rights) legally discriminate on marriages probably in the 1000s a day in this country and always have.

    They have against straight couples, gay couples, based on race, based on religion etc etc etc
    why now, magically, will this change?
    why was it not a fear when minority rights were granted? womans rights? and its never been a fear based on religious discrimination?

    I see ZERO logic in something so absurd BUT, I'm very curious how many people fear this lunacy and thier reasonings . . . maybe im missing something completely logical. SO far I havent seen any, so please share if it happens youll get to do a big I TOLD YOU SO lol

    anyway my vote is no . . HELL NO lol

    also FYI if i ever did see it as a reasonable possibility i would fight my way to the front of the line to fight it tooth and nail!
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?
    no
    yes
    other

    Until equal rights was given to gays in large ways, personally, Ive never heard this argument which i consider to be completely irrational, a simple fear tactic and conspiracy theory.

    I see no rational basis for this fear based on equal rights for gays since there are rights, laws, the constitution and countless court case precedences blocking something this stupid.

    I havent met one person that thinks churches should be forced and the reality is churches already (before gay rights) legally discriminate on marriages probably in the 1000s a day in this country and always have.

    They have against straight couples, gay couples, based on race, based on religion etc etc etc
    why now, magically, will this change?
    why was it not a fear when minority rights were granted? womans rights? and its never been a fear based on religious discrimination?

    I see ZERO logic in something so absurd BUT, I'm very curious how many people fear this lunacy and thier reasonings . . . maybe im missing something completely logical. SO far I havent seen any, so please share if it happens youll get to do a big I TOLD YOU SO lol

    anyway my vote is no . . HELL NO lol

    also FYI if i ever did see it as a reasonable possibility i would fight my way to the front of the line to fight it tooth and nail!
    Theres a thread about this here...
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...riages-17.html

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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    no theres not, that is a COMPLETELY different question
    asking if a person believes they SHOULD be (which there aren't any here that do) and if its a reasonable fear that it could ever happen are entirely different questions.
    Your mistake, thanks
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    no theres not, that is a COMPLETELY different question
    asking if a person believes they SHOULD be (which there aren't any here that do) and if its a reasonable fear that it could ever happen are entirely different questions.
    Your mistake, thanks

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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    exactly
    Last edited by AGENT J; 01-09-15 at 06:35 AM.
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?
    The way you asked this question, I answered no. It is a similar stance to the other thread on this subject though and based on the same conclusion.

    If we are going to go for separation of church and state then we have a two way street there we have to respect. If we are going to remove the church going to government to define what is and is not marriage, then we have to ensure the government does not go to the church and force them to marry whoever shows up. Both are based on the same 1st Amendment interpretation. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" meaning the church cannot appeal to Congress and subject the populace to the will of the church *and* the people cannot appeal to Congress and force the church to change their exercise of their faith. It is right there in plain English, and it would be a huge travesty of freedoms to suggest that the church must perform a marriage they do not want to at the will of the law. If the church does not own marriage (meaning it can be obtained elsewhere and there is no outright "ownership" of the service) then there is no Constitutional argument that the church must be forced to perform said service. That would be a direct violation of the 1st Amendment, and challenged on that merit.

    (Appreciate this coming from an agnostic.)
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    The way you asked this question, I answered no. It is a similar stance to the other thread on this subject though and based on the same conclusion.

    1.) If we are going to go for separation of church and state then we have a two way street there we have to respect.
    2.) If we are going to remove the church going to government to define what is and is not marriage, then we have to ensure the government does not go to the church and force them to marry whoever shows up.
    3.) Both are based on the same 1st Amendment interpretation. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" meaning the church cannot appeal to Congress and subject the populace to the will of the church *and* the people cannot appeal to Congress and force the church to change their exercise of their faith.
    4.) It is right there in plain English, and it would be a huge travesty of freedoms to suggest that the church must perform a marriage they do not want to at the will of the law.
    5.) If the church does not own marriage (meaning it can be obtained elsewhere and there is no outright "ownership" of the service)
    6.) then there is no Constitutional argument that the church must be forced to perform said service. That would be a direct violation of the 1st Amendment, and challenged on that merit.
    7.)(Appreciate this coming from an agnostic.)
    1.) we already have it
    2.) agreed but theres nothing to remove church already has zero say in legal marriage and government already has zero say in religious/spiritual marriage
    they are already separate
    3.) as long as its a "church" and has long as its within parameters yes. there are extremes where the church can just do what ever it wants
    4.) agreed a HUGE travesty that is very well blocked and highly unlikely unless we change the constitution
    5.) theres no IF, the church factually does not own legal marriage
    6.) agreed 100%
    7.) not sure why that matters but ok, anybody that understands and respect rights should agree
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    so nobody thinks its likely or logical . . . . why am i not surprised . . .

    another fear tactic and conspiracy throry bites the dust
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?
    no
    yes
    other

    Until equal rights was given to gays in large ways, personally, Ive never heard this argument which i consider to be completely irrational, a simple fear tactic and conspiracy theory.

    I see no rational basis for this fear based on equal rights for gays since there are rights, laws, the constitution and countless court case precedences blocking something this stupid.

    I havent met one person that thinks churches should be forced and the reality is churches already (before gay rights) legally discriminate on marriages probably in the 1000s a day in this country and always have.

    They have against straight couples, gay couples, based on race, based on religion etc etc etc
    why now, magically, will this change?
    why was it not a fear when minority rights were granted? womans rights? and its never been a fear based on religious discrimination?

    I see ZERO logic in something so absurd BUT, I'm very curious how many people fear this lunacy and thier reasonings . . . maybe im missing something completely logical. SO far I havent seen any, so please share if it happens youll get to do a big I TOLD YOU SO lol

    anyway my vote is no . . HELL NO lol

    also FYI if i ever did see it as a reasonable possibility i would fight my way to the front of the line to fight it tooth and nail!
    -Anti-LGBT arguments are mostly based in religion.
    -By far the dominant religion in the US is Christianity.
    -One of Christianity's fundamental precepts is "Thou shalt not give false testimony against thy neighbor."
    -Anti-LGBT arguments such as the ones described in the OP give false testimony against one's neighbor.

    Who are we to trust people who won't even follow their basic precepts??
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    I don't see it happening outside of isolated incidents.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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