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Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?


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Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

YOU made the claim, now back it up. I'm not going to do your research for you.

See my post no. 296.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

I’m simply illustrating a point.

I never said that was a “serious effort”. All I said was that “[t]here is already talk about removing church's tax exempt status. I suspect that some church's will ‘knuckle-under’ to keep thier tax exempt status by agreeing to marrying homosexual couples.”

That was my original comment and I still believe as much.

And yet not one Republican voted for it.

Pathetic.

I do hope you can do better than this.

I didn’t say anything about a “significant portion of people” and don’t believe that it will require that. Obamacare passed with a majority of Americans against it.

I never stated that.

You can find a lunatic who refuses to marry some arbitrary couple for any reason which is something far different from a religion as a whole not wanting to marry a homosexual couples due to religious objections.

There have been serious suggestions by many more Christians to make Christianity the US's official religion ("we're a Christian nation, other people need to accept that fact"), execute or at least imprison homosexuals and others who are "sinning" (according to our beliefs), prevent women from voting/using birth control, and many other ridiculous notions that I don't think are very likely to happen despite the fact that many seriously suggest they should, certainly many more and with much more power than anyone you can show has "seriously suggested" that churches that refuse to perform marriages for same sex couples should lose their tax exempt status or even that all churches simply should lose tax exemption.

Christianity As State Religion Supported By One-Third Of Americans, Poll Finds

Santorum: States Should Have The Right To Outlaw Birth Control | ThinkProgress

This is just two of those things I mentioned. Googling found many more results, some of which we have seen on here. (Heck we've had several posters who suggest pretty much all of these things.

Can you show me even similar results for removing tax exempt status for churches altogether let alone just for those churches who won't perform marriages for same sex couples? I want an actual link, not just that you can.

Oh, and as for no Republicans voting for Obamacare it is because of the additional things that Obama/Democrats included that Republicans didn't like, expanding Medicaid/Medicare and the regulations/rules insurance companies and employers had to follow. Republicans wanted individuals to be forced to simply have to get insurance even if their employers didn't offer it and it cost them an arm and a leg to purchase.
 
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Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

See my post no. 296.

People discuss many things.

there are 6,734,000 hits on do aliens exist.

Does that mean that you actually believe that aliens exist? OR Does it mean that people are asking a question or having a discussion?

I discuss many different topics, that does not mean the they have any real chance of happening. Just like people discussing taxing churches. Unless you can show that someone with the power to make it happen is trying, then it is all internet chatter.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

There have been serious suggestions by many more Christians to make Christianity the US's official religion ("we're a Christian nation, other people need to accept that fact"), execute or at least imprison homosexuals and others who are "sinning" (according to our beliefs), prevent women from voting/using birth control, and many other ridiculous notions that I don't think are very likely to happen despite the fact that many seriously suggest they should, certainly many more and with much more power than anyone you can show has "seriously suggested" that churches that refuse to perform marriages for same sex couples should lose their tax exempt status or even that all churches simply should lose tax exemption.

1. I’ve never heard anyone suggest that Christianity be a Federally sponsored religions. I’ve heard states say as much (historically) as all of the original 13 states had state-sponsored religions (all Christian). Even the Northwest Ordinance (what you had to follow to become a state) required that “religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged” (Article III)--and that “religion” they were talking about was Christianity.

2. I’ve never heard of any Christian say they wanted to imprison or kill gay folks in this country. There are some horrible things being done in Uganda today with respect to gays and these folks that are tormenting them are not following the Bible and so they can’t defend their actions from a Christian view (even if they "wrap" themselves in Christianity or anything else for that matter). I’ve heard a lot of non-Christians say as much (Westboro Baptist) and I have no idea how they can call themselves “Christian”. Now left-wingers (nazis, communist and democrats like the Westboro Retards) want to jail and kill gays. History proves that.

This is just two of those things I mentioned. Googling found many more results, some of which we have seen on here. (Heck we've had several posters who suggest pretty much all of these things.

All that proves is what we both already know to be true…stupid people are everywhere!

Can you show me even similar results for removing tax exempt status for churches altogether let alone just for those churches who won't perform marriages for same sex couples? I want an actual link, not just that you can.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/nyregion/18grove.html?_r=0

Church loses tax-exempt status

Oh, and as for no Republicans voting for Obamacare it is because of the additional things that Obama/Democrats included that Republicans didn't like, expanding Medicaid/Medicare and the regulations/rules insurance companies and employers had to follow. Republicans wanted individuals to be forced to simply have to get insurance even if their employers didn't offer it and it cost them an arm and a leg to purchase.

Actually the individual mandate is what Republicans oppose as evidenced by the fact that not one single Republican voted for that unconstitutional bill.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

1. I’ve never heard anyone suggest that Christianity be a Federally sponsored religions. I’ve heard states say as much (historically) as all of the original 13 states had state-sponsored religions (all Christian). Even the Northwest Ordinance (what you had to follow to become a state) required that “religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged” (Article III)--and that “religion” they were talking about was Christianity.

2. I’ve never heard of any Christian say they wanted to imprison or kill gay folks in this country. There are some horrible things being done in Uganda today with respect to gays and these folks that are tormenting them are not following the Bible and so they can’t defend their actions from a Christian view (even if they "wrap" themselves in Christianity or anything else for that matter). I’ve heard a lot of non-Christians say as much (Westboro Baptist) and I have no idea how they can call themselves “Christian”. Now left-wingers (nazis, communist and democrats like the Westboro Retards) want to jail and kill gays. History proves that.

All that proves is what we both already know to be true…stupid people are everywhere!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/nyregion/18grove.html?_r=0

Church loses tax-exempt status

Actually the individual mandate is what Republicans oppose as evidenced by the fact that not one single Republican voted for that unconstitutional bill.

I provided you with examples of both things you claim you never heard of. Showing you that such things are popular at least to a degree, not just "discussed" in some really small sects of the population. Removing tax exempt status for churches who don't perform same sex marriages is so unpopular that it isn't even asked in any regular polls and even when it is asked it receives less than 10% of any vote, and most of those votes for it are not for the specific removal just for not performing same sex marriages, but rather because the people doing so think churches shouldn't be tax exempt to begin with.

Westboro Baptist Church are Christians, whether you wish to claim them or not. They are also not liberals, despite your claims otherwise and they are most certainly antigay. Nazis were not atheist. They seen themselves as a new type of Christians, that rejected the Jewish roots of Christianity, rather pushing that Jesus was a warrior with Nordic roots killed by the Jews. Hitler was looking to establish himself as basically a God in Germany. He was trying to establish the state as the new religion. This is nothing like atheism or agnosticism at all. Most atheists are no more interested in establishing such a thing than most theists.

History proves nothing of the sort you are claiming. More gays have been jailed and killed by theists and conservatives, especially Christians and Muslims, than ever killed by communists.

Interesting how you didn't include my links proving to you that there are a lot of Christians and conservatives/Republicans that are trying to a) make Christianity the national religion (something that violates the freedom of religion part of the Constitution) and b) wanting to kill/imprison gays. Look at Russia. Christianity, fundamental Christianity is what is leading to the laws there. Definitely not communism, socialism, Nazism, or liberalism.

That group in your first link was not a church. The second link was about a church that did something that violated the separation of church and state, involving themselves directly in politics, something churches agree not to do in order to maintain their tax exempt status as a church.

Them not voting for it does not prove that they felt the individual mandate was what they opposed. It can most certainly show exactly what I claimed, that it was the other parts of the ACA that they opposed, only claiming the individual mandate because they knew that was the part the majority of Americans opposed.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

I provided you with examples of both things you claim you never heard of...in some really small sects of the population...

Even if they are just small sects of the population?

Removing tax exempt status for churches who don't perform same sex marriages is so unpopular that it isn't even asked in any regular polls...

Once again, I just have an opinion. Once upon a time nobody ever thought there would be such a thing as “homosexual marriage”. It was simply a ludicrous thought and nobody took it seriously. Now it’s a reality.

Westboro Baptist Church are Christians…

Lots of people claim to be “Christian”. Even Jesus touched on this in Matthew 7:21-23.

…whether you wish to claim them or not. They are also not liberals, despite your claims otherwise and they are most certainly antigay.

Liberals? I have no idea but the Westboro bunch are Democrats. That’s a matter of record and not up for debate.

Nazis were not atheist...

No they weren’t atheist but as you indicate they were occultist.

Hitler was looking to establish himself as basically a God in Germany.

Yes, I was just watching something on TV about that this weekend. A propaganda video showed school children singing Hitler’s praises. Jeez! Let’s hope there’s never another megalomaniac psychopath that ever encourages that kind of thing again.

He was trying to establish the state as the new religion...Most atheists are no more interested in establishing such a thing than most theists.

Well, which was it? Was he trying to establish himself as God or the state?

History proves nothing of the sort you are claiming. More gays have been jailed and killed by theists and conservatives, especially Christians and Muslims, than ever killed by communists.

76278.jpg

1. Notice the triangles? It means they're gay! (I have no idea what triangles and homosexuality have in common.)

2. I can’t speak for Muslims. They’re whako!

3. Please provide evidence and numbers of gay men and women killed by “theist and conservatives”.

Interesting how you didn't include my links proving to you that there are a lot of Christians and conservatives/Republicans that are trying to…
a) make Christianity the national religion (something that violates the freedom of religion part of the Constitution) and…

You posted an irrelevant article that showed that a minority of Americans support a state religion. The same article showed that 58% of Americans (incorrectly) believed that it was unconstitutional (which it is at a federal level). So what?

b) wanting to kill/imprison gays. Look at Russia. Christianity, fundamental Christianity is what is leading to the laws there.

I’ve no idea what is “leading to the laws there” but Christianity certainly does not require the imprisonment or killing of gay people.

Definitely not communism, socialism, Nazism, or liberalism.

Yea, Nazis, communists and other leftist have always been friendly to gay folks. I’ve not idea in what universe that may be true but it’s definitely not this one.

I’m also a little disappointed in your grasp on history. I’ve debated you before and you’re not stupid. You should know better.

That group in your first link was not a church.

I know. I was just trying to make a point.

The second link was about a church that did something that violated the separation of church and state, involving themselves directly in politics, something churches agree not to do in order to maintain their tax exempt status as a church.

1. Churches never agreed to not get involved in politics? In fact, churches in this country have a long history of getting involved in politics!

2. How come this never applies to black churches? Black leaders get in pulpits all over the South and talk about politics and invite politicians to speak from the pulpit and nobody ever says anything. Odd.

It can most certainly show exactly what I claimed, that it was the other parts of the ACA that they opposed, only claiming the individual mandate because they knew that was the part the majority of Americans opposed.

And yet it’s the individual mandate that has been debated as being unconstitutional. Odd.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Uh...no

No I don't think it is likely or rational.

Why are you polling the obvious?
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Uh...no

No I don't think it is likely or rational.

Why are you polling the obvious?


while i agree that it is OBVIOUS that its not likely or rational im asking because it seems there are about a handful maybe two handfuls of illogical conspiracy theorists that not only insist thats its an honest idea but that its already happening in ways lol

so i wanted to know who and if ANYBODY could explain based on LEGALITY how it could be and so far nothing . . .
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Even if they are just small sects of the population?

Once again, I just have an opinion. Once upon a time nobody ever thought there would be such a thing as “homosexual marriage”. It was simply a ludicrous thought and nobody took it seriously. Now it’s a reality.

Lots of people claim to be “Christian”. Even Jesus touched on this in Matthew 7:21-23.

Liberals? I have no idea but the Westboro bunch are Democrats. That’s a matter of record and not up for debate.

No they weren’t atheist but as you indicate they were occultist.

Yes, I was just watching something on TV about that this weekend. A propaganda video showed school children singing Hitler’s praises. Jeez! Let’s hope there’s never another megalomaniac psychopath that ever encourages that kind of thing again.

Well, which was it? Was he trying to establish himself as God or the state?

1. Notice the triangles? It means they're gay! (I have no idea what triangles and homosexuality have in common.)

2. I can’t speak for Muslims. They’re whako!

3. Please provide evidence and numbers of gay men and women killed by “theist and conservatives”.

You posted an irrelevant article that showed that a minority of Americans support a state religion. The same article showed that 58% of Americans (incorrectly) believed that it was unconstitutional (which it is at a federal level). So what?

I’ve no idea what is “leading to the laws there” but Christianity certainly does not require the imprisonment or killing of gay people.

Yea, Nazis, communists and other leftist have always been friendly to gay folks. I’ve not idea in what universe that may be true but it’s definitely not this one.

I’m also a little disappointed in your grasp on history. I’ve debated you before and you’re not stupid. You should know better.

First of all, your first comment was based on something I never said but rather you purposely deleting parts of my post and selecting certain phrases that make it much different than what I posted. You should not be doing that if you want to be considered in any way an honest poster. It is very dishonest to do such a thing. This is what I posted.

I provided you with examples of both things you claim you never heard of. Showing you that such things are popular at least to a degree, not just "discussed" in some really small sects of the population. Removing tax exempt status for churches who don't perform same sex marriages is so unpopular that it isn't even asked in any regular polls and even when it is asked it receives less than 10% of any vote, and most of those votes for it are not for the specific removal just for not performing same sex marriages, but rather because the people doing so think churches shouldn't be tax exempt to begin with.

32-34% of the US population is not "a small sect of the population". It is a rather large percentage.

Christianity As State Religion Supported By One-Third Of Americans, Poll Finds

And while Nazis were imprisoning and killing gays, so was the US and many other countries. Our country had laws that put homosexuals to death and chemically castrated them long before the Nazis. Even in the early part of the 20th Century, people could still be involuntarily committed and subjected to torturous treatments, including electroshock therapy and lobotomies because of being gay. Some Christians currently run businesses that use techniques that can be considered torturous today to try to "convert" homosexuals. There are countries run by Christians (and other religions) that currently put homosexuals to death. ISIS is throwing them off of buildings. My comments on this are more than accurate. Theists and governments with religion as a huge part of the way it runs have killed and imprisoned way more homosexuals than secular governments, including Nazis.

You don't get to disown Christians just because you don't approve of them or think they don't meet Jesus' definition. Plus, they would still be theists. And Southern Democrats are very different than the Democrats of today. If you don't know that phrase, look it up. In reality, WBC is socially conservative. That is a fact.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

First of all, your first comment was based on something I never said but rather you purposely deleting parts of my post and selecting certain phrases that make it much different than what I posted. You should not be doing that if you want to be considered in any way an honest poster. It is very dishonest to do such a thing. This is what I posted.

I was running out of room and was going to have to spread my reply over two post so I had to delete something. You weren’t saying anything coherent so I opted to delete your words instead of my own (it was, after all, my reply).

And I did nothing dishonest. You cited a poll that showed a minority of the population support state-sponsored religion. A minority is a “small sect of the population”.

And while Nazis were imprisoning and killing gays…

At least you finally acknowledge that leftist murder homosexuals. Kinda makes you wonder why so many homosexuals are leftist, doesn’t it?

…so was the US…

Oh? Do enlighten me! I’m not aware of any laws in the United States that required the death penalty for homosexuals.

…and many other countries.

No doubt! Most notably Islamic countries and Uganda.

Our country had laws that put homosexuals to death and chemically castrated them long before the Nazis.

Once again, what were these laws?

Even in the early part of the 20th Century, people could still be involuntarily committed and subjected to torturous treatments, including electroshock therapy and lobotomies because of being gay.

Which laws allowed this?

Some Christians currently run businesses that use techniques that can be considered torturous today to try to "convert" homosexuals.

Yes, I’ve heard of them!

So exactly what did I say that you are trying to debunk?

There are countries run by Christians (and other religions) that currently put homosexuals to death. ISIS is throwing them off of buildings. My comments on this are more than accurate. Theists and governments with religion as a huge part of the way it runs have killed and imprisoned way more homosexuals than secular governments, including Nazis.

You don't get to disown Christians just because you don't approve of them or think they don't meet Jesus' definition. Plus, they would still be theists. And Southern Democrats are very different than the Democrats of today. If you don't know that phrase, look it up. In reality, WBC is socially conservative. That is a fact.

1. What Christians do and what Christianity dictates are often, sadly, very different things. Try to be somewhat objective when making such sweeping and damning arguments. It may help to think of it this way…while some teachers molest their students not all teachers are child molesters.

2. Islam does kill homosexuals…and Jews…and Christians…and women…and children…and each other…so I’m not real sure what you’re point is about Islam killing people. Islam is a death cult that deifies a moon god and reveres a child molester.

3. If you think Christians or “Christian-dominated / influenced” governments have killed more gays (or anybody else for that matter) than the Nazis or communists then you are woefully ignorant of history. I can assure you that the 20th Century is not known as “the bloodiest century in history” because of Christians.

4. With respect to the Westboro Baptist Church, their leader, Fred Phelps, ran for public office several times…as a democrat. You can look it up for yourself.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration



I was running out of room and was going to have to spread my reply over two post so I had to delete something. You weren’t saying anything coherent so I opted to delete your words instead of my own (it was, after all, my reply).

And I did nothing dishonest. You cited a poll that showed a minority of the population support state-sponsored religion. A minority is a “small sect of the population”.



At least you finally acknowledge that leftist murder homosexuals. Kinda makes you wonder why so many homosexuals are leftist, doesn’t it?

Oh? Do enlighten me! I’m not aware of any laws in the United States that required the death penalty for homosexuals.

No doubt! Most notably Islamic countries and Uganda.

Once again, what were these laws?

Which laws allowed this?

Yes, I’ve heard of them!

So exactly what did I say that you are trying to debunk?

1. What Christians do and what Christianity dictates are often, sadly, very different things. Try to be somewhat objective when making such sweeping and damning arguments. It may help to think of it this way…while some teachers molest their students not all teachers are child molesters.

2. Islam does kill homosexuals…and Jews…and Christians…and women…and children…and each other…so I’m not real sure what you’re point is about Islam killing people. Islam is a death cult that deifies a moon god and reveres a child molester.

3. If you think Christians or “Christian-dominated / influenced” governments have killed more gays (or anybody else for that matter) than the Nazis or communists then you are woefully ignorant of history. I can assure you that the 20th Century is not known as “the bloodiest century in history” because of Christians.

4. With respect to the Westboro Baptist Church, their leader, Fred Phelps, ran for public office several times…as a democrat. You can look it up for yourself.

One third of the population is not a small sect of people, not in relation to this topic, to these sorts of issues. That is a significant minority. It is larger than most of the populations of groups in the US that we would call "minorities".

Muslim countries, Uganda and several other countries where Christians are the majority or hold a major place in country policies. Russia is massively adopting traditional Christianity, and low and behold, they are now condemning homosexuals more and more harshly.

10 Countries That Completely Hate Gay People - Listverse

The Bible calls for the stoning death of homosexuals, so don't tell me that the Bible isn't violent in its reaction toward homosexuality.

The death penalty was in place in several states in the past when we became a country. One example is Virginia, in which Thomas Jefferson actually said that the penalty should not be death but rather castration.

History of Sodomy Laws in the United States - A Timeline History of Sodomy Laws in the United States

The point was that religious people persecute homosexuals more than secular people, religion based governments have put to death or imprisoned many more people for homosexuality than secular based governments. Even our own government, which has had a huge amount of Christian influence that has only just recently been being done away with, imprisoned and even executed (for a part of our past) homosexuals. It wasn't until we started to dispel Christian beliefs from having significant influence in our laws that our laws lightened up against homosexuality.

The "bloodiest century in history" is not referring to just the actions of people against homosexuals. And I never claimed it was just Christians, but Christians have played a role in it, along with many other religions.

He ran as a Democrat because he was completely bat**** crazy. His claim to fame was fighting for civil rights, which he almost certainly did mainly because he recognized that it was going to happen. He might have been out of his gourd, but he was pretty smart when it came to the law.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Yes, in certain jurisdictions I see is as very likely.

Using the past as reference to other areas of discrimination doesn't work. In the past, discrimination is services was not criminal. In addition, the civil punishment in the past was a lawsuit by the victim. Now the civil or criminal penalty goes to the government, giving the government a profit motive.
 
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Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

It was a for profit wedding chapel not a church, and the whole thing was a fabrication anyway. Anatomy of a Right-Wing Fabrication: No Threat to Idaho Wedding Chapel | Advocate.com

So you were still wrong.

No, it is not an entire fabrication. In the evolved story, to qualify for government exemption for the CRIMINAL anti-discrimination law the religion/religious person must REGISTER with the government first, obtain government permission and then - and only then - did the jurisdiction opt not to prosecute.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?
no
yes
other

Until equal rights was given to gays in large ways, personally, Ive never heard this argument which i consider to be completely irrational, a simple fear tactic and conspiracy theory.

I see no rational basis for this fear based on equal rights for gays since there are rights, laws, the constitution and countless court case precedences blocking something this stupid.

I havent met one person that thinks churches should be forced and the reality is churches already (before gay rights) legally discriminate on marriages probably in the 1000s a day in this country and always have.

They have against straight couples, gay couples, based on race, based on religion etc etc etc
why now, magically, will this change?
why was it not a fear when minority rights were granted? womans rights? and its never been a fear based on religious discrimination?

I see ZERO logic in something so absurd BUT, I'm very curious how many people fear this lunacy and thier reasonings . . . maybe im missing something completely logical. SO far I havent seen any, so please share if it happens youll get to do a big I TOLD YOU SO lol

anyway my vote is no . . HELL NO lol

also FYI if i ever did see it as a reasonable possibility i would fight my way to the front of the line to fight it tooth and nail!

Nobody should be forced to be nice. Let assholes be assholes and ignore them.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Nobody should be forced to be nice. Let assholes be assholes and ignore them.

I agree 100% but Im not sure what that has to do with the topic.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

No, it is not an entire fabrication. In the evolved story, to qualify for government exemption for the CRIMINAL anti-discrimination law the religion/religious person must REGISTER with the government first, obtain government permission and then - and only then - did the jurisdiction opt not to prosecute.

Please cite the federal court decision that ruled anti-discrimination laws as "CRIMINAL".
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Please cite the federal court decision that ruled anti-discrimination laws as "CRIMINAL".

It is the local law in the OP story.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

1.) false
2.) also false
3.) government hasnt forced anybody to perform anything immoral
4.) since 1, 2, 3 are false and lies 4 also fails
5.) see #4

can you make a post that can ever be backed up with facts or anything even accurate and logical


lets look at some facts in the US:
number of businesses forced to participate in gay marriages . . . . ZERO
number of churches forced to do gay marriages . . . ZERO


are you just trying to be a ass with this thread?

i mean really?

you can say no one was forced to "participate" but the definition of participation is where a lot of people would disagree with you.....yes?

some of the population believes that any "participation" in a gay wedding goes against their beliefs? do you agree with that statement?

instead of the customer taking their business elsewhere, either the customer or one of their "friends" starts the discrimination process

so what happens to the shop owner? is he left alone? is he allowed to stay in business?

or does the government in some form tell him either to participate, or else?

not sure what your definition is of "force" or "coercion" but those meet mine

maybe highly religious people shouldnt be in businesses that have marriages as part of their business

florists, decorators, bakeries, rental halls, etc

for some people it is no big deal.....and they welcome the business

for others, it is a big deal.....and they would rather shut down their business than be "forced" to participate in something they find so repulsive

it used to be that businesses were free to associate and do business with who they wanted

for some, i understand the need for the change in the law......hospitals, public conveyance, inns & hotels, etc

for the others, i dont.....there are more than one florist that can be used.....or one bakery

end of rant...
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

1.)are you just trying to be a ass with this thread? i mean really?
2.)you can say no one was forced to "participate" but the definition of participation is where a lot of people would disagree with you.....yes?
3.) some of the population believes that any "participation" in a gay wedding goes against their beliefs? do you agree with that statement?
4.) instead of the customer taking their business elsewhere, either the customer or one of their "friends" starts the discrimination process
5.) so what happens to the shop owner? is he left alone? is he allowed to stay in business?
6.) or does the government in some form tell him either to participate, or else?
7.) not sure what your definition is of "force" or "coercion" but those meet mine
8.) maybe highly religious people shouldnt be in businesses that have marriages as part of their business
9.)florists, decorators, bakeries, rental halls, etc
10.) for some people it is no big deal.....and they welcome the business
11.) for others, it is a big deal.....and they would rather shut down their business than be "forced" to participate in something they find so repulsive
12.) it used to be that businesses were free to associate and do business with who they wanted
13.)for some, i understand the need for the change in the law......hospitals, public conveyance, inns & hotels, etc
14.)for the others, i dont.....there are more than one florist that can be used.....or one bakery
15.)end of rant...

1.) nope I was just curious to see if there were really that many people that could believe somethign so stupid and illogical
2.) no it wouldn't, in facts law, definitions and everything else is on my side.
3,) yes im sure they do, that doesnt give them any special privileges to break the law or infringe on others rights
4.) actually if you are referring to a business domino number one would be people stupid enough to CHOOSE to break the law and be criminals
5.) same thing that happens to anybody that break the law and infringe on the rights of others, there are consciousnesses
6.) government enforces ALL of our rights and law and this consensuses for breaking them, just like the rapist, embezzler, murder, assaulter, thier etc
7.) well your definition doesnt matter to law and facts, there those people CHOOSE to break the law so its there fault if there is consciousness. I mean fine then by your defintion murders and rapist are also "forced" or "coerced" then too LMAO
8.) there are lots of highly religious people in business that have marriage in their business they just arent stupid enough to break the law or dumb enough to think its allowed cause of their "feelings" and "belifes"
9.) yep plenty of those people are highly religions and do just fine cause they have somethign called civility and dont choose to break the law, they are able to live harmoniously in a society with laws and rights
10.) yes normal people
11.) then they are stupid fro opening up the business and thinking they get special treatment. Im a christian, i would never think that i get to run my business how ever i want simply because of my religion, thats moronic and i respect the law and my fellow Americans rights.
12.) they still are
13.) rights and laws are for some they are for us all
14.) nope I dont get special treatment based on my religion, i have to follow the same rules and laws as EVERYBODY lol
15.) well try again when you have somethign that actually matter to rights and laws
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

It is the local law in the OP story.

You called the law criminal. There are anti-discrimination laws on the books in states and localities across the country, none of them have been ruled as criminal. If you believe that anti-discrimination laws are criminal, perhaps you should find an island and found the country KluKluxKlanistan.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

1.) nope I was just curious to see if there were really that many people that could believe somethign so stupid and illogical
2.) no it wouldn't, in facts law, definitions and everything else is on my side.
3,) yes im sure they do, that doesnt give them any special privileges to break the law or infringe on others rights
4.) actually if you are referring to a business domino number one would be people stupid enough to CHOOSE to break the law and be criminals
5.) same thing that happens to anybody that break the law and infringe on the rights of others, there are consciousnesses
6.) government enforces ALL of our rights and law and this consensuses for breaking them, just like the rapist, embezzler, murder, assaulter, thier etc
7.) well your definition doesnt matter to law and facts, there those people CHOOSE to break the law so its there fault if there is consciousness. I mean fine then by your defintion murders and rapist are also "forced" or "coerced" then too LMAO
8.) there are lots of highly religious people in business that have marriage in their business they just arent stupid enough to break the law or dumb enough to think its allowed cause of their "feelings" and "belifes"
9.) yep plenty of those people are highly religions and do just fine cause they have somethign called civility and dont choose to break the law, they are able to live harmoniously in a society with laws and rights
10.) yes normal people
11.) then they are stupid fro opening up the business and thinking they get special treatment. Im a christian, i would never think that i get to run my business how ever i want simply because of my religion, thats moronic and i respect the law and my fellow Americans rights.
12.) they still are
13.) rights and laws are for some they are for us all
14.) nope I dont get special treatment based on my religion, i have to follow the same rules and laws as EVERYBODY lol
15.) well try again when you have somethign that actually matter to rights and laws



so as i guessed, you did start this thread just to be an ass

no problem

we ALL understand the laws.....

but some of us actually try to see the others perspective....and why something may be important to someone

you apparently just want to rub salt in wounds.....nice for you.....glad you are having fun doing so

i should have known better.....my bad

i'm gone
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

1.)so as i guessed, you did start this thread just to be an ass
2.) no problem
3.)we ALL understand the laws.....
4.)but some of us actually try to see the others perspective....and why something may be important to someone
5.)you apparently just want to rub salt in wounds.....nice for you.....glad you are having fun doing so
6.)i should have known better.....my bad
7.)i'm gone

1.) nope wrong again just to see how many people thought this topic was real or dont care about rights. Ill add you to that list
2.) yes its no problem you were wrong
3.) obviously you dont or you simply dont care about the law and rights, pick one
4.) I see thier perspective they want to break the law and infringe on others rights, so do many criminals should they all get free passes?
5.) nope wrong again I simply care about our rights and the constitution and laws. If that is rubbing salt in the wounds of bigots and criminals there a very easy solution . . dont break the law or move to another country that doesnt respected rights
6.) yes you should have none better to think i dont care about our rights and support bigotry and or breaking the law
7.) later
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration


Fail. This was about a couple who were only ordained to perform wedding ceremonies as part of their business. And they were not forced or even legitimately threatened with force to perform wedding ceremonies. They in fact knew exactly what needed to be done with their business to avoid any question of whether the particular law applied to them or not, then decided to file a lawsuit claiming nonsense about them being forced to marry gays.
 
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