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Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?


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Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ra...

Regardless, changing marriage into something it has never been is an extremist position.



Except we’re not talking about “interracial” marriages. We’re talking about homosexual marriages. And while you insist that churches will not be forced to marry homosexuals--above you state that “f someone doesn't want to bake a wedding cake or photograph an…interfaith wedding or the wedding of someone of a certain faith, they too are sued and ‘run out of business’ because it is illegal discrimination…”. Sorry, don’t know how to break it to you but someone who thinks it’s okay to marry someone of the same-sex has a very different faith (“interfaith”) from the one described in the Christian Bible and practiced by a majority of Christian Churches.



Trying to argue a strawman, are we?

Like it or not, forcing people to involve their businesses in unwanted homosexual marriages in not a far cry from forcing churches to marry homosexuals. In my mind this is simply a foregone conclusion. In my opinion, churches will be forced to marry homosexuals or be forced to give up their tax exempt status.


The flip side to this is letting any declared religious belief be a loophole to public accommodation laws. If I say my sincere religious belief precludes me from allowing Jews to board my airplane, is my air transport operation then allowed to reject any Jewish passenger?

How about race? Can I put up a "NO BLACKS" sign on my restaurant door if it's a "sincere" religious belief?

If that's your opinion, just say so. "I think businesses should be able to discriminate on the basis of race, gender, religion, or sexuality."
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

its irrational because theres no steps in law that can be taken to do so unless the constitution is amended.

Legitimately, there are no legal steps that can be taken to force any person with any moral standards to have anything whatsoever to do with sick, immoral homosexual mockeries of weddings in which they want no part, without amending the Constitution; but that has not stopped it from happening. The line that you keep insisting will never be crossed, has already been crossed, and was crossed well before you and I ever started arguing about whether it would or should be crossed.
 
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Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Since marriage has included same sex couples in the past.

No, it has not. By definition, marriage is only between a man and a woman. To apply the term to a pairing between a man and a man, or between a woman and a woman, will always be a lie.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Legitimately, there are no legal steps that can be taken to force any person with any moral standards to have anything whatsoever to do with sick, immoral homosexual mockeries of weddings in which they want no part, without amending the Constitution; but that has not stopped it from happening. The line that you keep insisting will never be crossed, has already been crossed.

sorry bob im not looking for your unsupportable opinion im looking for FACTS which you never have and never present.
You imaginary line based on your felling, subjective morals and opinions doesnt matter to the constitution, laws, and rights and those 3 things all prove your claims to be wrong.
Facts win again Bob
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ra...

The flip side to this is letting any declared religious belief be a loophole to public accommodation laws. If I say my sincere religious belief precludes me from allowing Jews to board my airplane, is my air transport operation then allowed to reject any Jewish passenger?

The error is in putting government above the people, in holding that it is government that has the authority to impose rules that violate the people's freedom, and then putting the burden on the people to prove that they should be allowed to exercise certain freedoms. It should be the other way around. The people's freedom should come first, and the burden should be on government to prove that it has a legitimate and necessary reason to intrude thereon.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

No, it has not. By definition, marriage is only between a man and a woman. To apply the term to a pairing between a man and a man, or between a woman and a woman, will always be a lie.

sorry Bob once again your OPINION is meanignless

FACT: this couple below was legally married and in a marriage
g1.jpg
no amount of foot stomping and lying will ever change this fact :shrug:
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ra...

The error is in putting government above the people, in holding that it is government that has the authority to impose rules that violate the people's freedom, and then putting the burden on the people to prove that they should be allowed to exercise certain freedoms. It should be the other way around. The people's freedom should come first, and the burden should be on government to prove that it has a legitimate and necessary reason to intrude thereon.

the freedom of the people is coming first thats why your views are losing lol
what you actually want is your views to trump others freedoms and you are in the wrong country for that
the actual error is that you think your subjective opinion and wants trump others, it doesnt, the constitution, rights and laws are greater than your feelings
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

No, it has not. By definition, marriage is only between a man and a woman. To apply the term to a pairing between a man and a man, or between a woman and a woman, will always be a lie.

It has included same sex couples. And you don't get exclusive say in defining marriage.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Sure it does and good morning. I do not push my religion on anyone and very rarely talk about it. I do wish there was a decent way to stop all them 7th Day folks from coming by the house every once in a long while. I would be very happy to just let things be. What is, is. Trying to change or take down crosses if not letting things be or respecting others. It is taking actions against someone else, by doing so it is showing their lack of respect.

I am very easy, just let things be. What is there is there. Do not try to force your beliefs or non-beliefs upon others.

Which is great, that doesn't mean you're typical, especially when it comes to evangelical or fundamentalist religious beliefs. They do want to push their beliefs on others, not only do they want to do it, they think it's their right to do it and nobody can stop them.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

I was referring to the persons. CompanyCompanydo not have religious beliefs. People do. If you force a business, you force a person.

So, then, would you suggest that businesses be allowed to exclude customers on the basis of race, religion, or gender?
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

No, it has not. By definition, marriage is only between a man and a woman. To apply the term to a pairing between a man and a man, or between a woman and a woman, will always be a lie.

Great, then, you don't perceive anyone to be changing the definition of marriage, because you don't believe that definition can be changed. You also must believe the institution of marriage is not under attack, because two women marrying isn't really a marriage, so there's no attack.

Right?
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

its irrational because theres no steps in law that can be taken to do so unless the constitution is amended.

One would think.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ra...

The error is in putting government above the people, in holding that it is government that has the authority to impose rules that violate the people's freedom, and then putting the burden on the people to prove that they should be allowed to exercise certain freedoms. It should be the other way around. The people's freedom should come first, and the burden should be on government to prove that it has a legitimate and necessary reason to intrude thereon.

So, yes, you do think a business should be allowed to put up a "NO BLACKS" sign. You want to, among other things, repeal the Civil Rights Act. Ok. Just say that. Stop hiding behind all these other charades. Just say "I want businesses to be allowed to discriminate for any reason."

However, it is absolutely comical that you make this post. You know why?

You are arguing to restrict the freedom of the people. You want the government to restrict a private legal contract between homosexual couples. What's your "legitimate and necessary reason" to ban same-sex marriage?
 
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Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

One would think.
yes one would think

im been asking and nobody can provide one factual move based on legality that can make it happen.

the best part is, those on the illogical conspiracy theory side think its a trick . . .



but so far . . . . nothing :shrug:
its not, i honestly want to know if there's one out there because i cant see any besides a constitutional amendment/changing the 1st. and if theres one out there i would gladly fight against it and be worried about it
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

And on the flip side only allowing one particular religious icon and forbidding others is not respecting others. See the Oklahoma 10 commandments issue, or the bibles only handed out in Florida.
It is an all or nothing issue. Why should only one religion (generally Christian) be represented on public land and not all others?

Let them all be. It is all part of not infringing upon the free exercise thereof. Not allowing the ten commandants or anything else is infringing on the free exercise of.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Yet no church is forced to marry interracial couples, or black couples, or previously divorced couples, or people of other religions.

What CHURCH was forced to pay for abortions?

I am personally not aware of any church denying to marry interracial, black, previously divorced couples, etc. Nor am I aware of any Scriptures that prohibit the marrying of interracial, black, previously divorced couples, etc. However, the Bible does prohibits homosexual behavior (and that would include--by default--homosexual marriage).

And it is primarily the Catholic Church that has been fighting with Obama with regard to abortion and Obamacare but that is another debate.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

I am personally not aware of any church denying to marry interracial, black, previously divorced couples, etc. Nor am I aware of any Scriptures that prohibit the marrying of interracial, black, previously divorced couples, etc. However, the Bible does prohibits homosexual behavior (and that would include--by default--homosexual marriage).

And it is primarily the Catholic Church that has been fighting with Obama with regard to abortion and Obamacare but that is another debate.

You don't see any reason, but people did. 50 years ago, there were a ton of people making religious arguments against same-sex marriage, and there were plenty of churches that would refuse to perform the ceremony.

They had their own justification in scriptures, just like you do. Me, I've never seen evidence that Jesus Christ ever said one word condemning homosexuality.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

also for the record its:
47 no (81%)
8 yes (14%)
3 other (5%)


but the 8 havent provided how yet
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

1.)I am personally not aware of any church denying to marry interracial, black, previously divorced couples, etc. Nor am I aware of any Scriptures that prohibit the marrying of interracial, black, previously divorced couples, etc. However, the Bible does prohibits homosexual behavior (and that would include--by default--homosexual marriage).

LMAO it happens all the time in this country and im fine with it cause its LEGAL
probably 1000s of couples a day are denied based on race, sexual orientation, not religious enough, age differences, wrong religions, being divorced already etc etc

hell i had a friend that had to go to 5 churches to get married because they want to get marriage under his wife's specific domination and he was "religious" enough for the first 4 churches, the last one made them wait and him take classes.

just in 2012
Mississippi Church Rejects Black Wedding - ABC News

typically this stuff doesnt make news because there is no news, its legal lol
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

I am personally not aware of any church denying to marry interracial, black, previously divorced couples, etc. Nor am I aware of any Scriptures that prohibit the marrying of interracial, black, previously divorced couples, etc. However, the Bible does prohibits homosexual behavior (and that would include--by default--homosexual marriage).

And it is primarily the Catholic Church that has been fighting with Obama with regard to abortion and Obamacare but that is another debate.

Then you are ill informed or in denial. Refusals to perform interracial marriages pop up in the news every couple of years. There was one within the last two years where a black couple was denied a marriage in the church. The Catholic Church will only perform a marriage for a divorced catholic if they had the first marriage officially annulled by the Catholic Church. Many religions refuse to wed interfaith couples.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

It hasn't been exclusively between a man and a woman.

Until this generation, yes, it most certainly has.

As for the abortion thing, you are confusing a state mandate with Obamacare. I haven't found anything saying otherwise except for coverage of things like contraceptives and Plan B, which is not an abortion drug.

Plan B is an aborticacient. I’ll let you figure it out by yourself.

Plus there are exemptions for churches.

Yea, if you’re Amish or Mennonite.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

So, then, would you suggest that businesses be allowed to exclude customers on the basis of race, religion, or gender?

You know of a religion that requires excluding Whites as costumers?
But in principal? I think it would be stupid. But I don't think I would want the government getting involved in matters of religion.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ra...

The flip side to this is letting any declared religious belief be a loophole to public accommodation laws. If I say my sincere religious belief precludes me from allowing Jews to board my airplane, is my air transport operation then allowed to reject any Jewish passenger?

Well, I’d say you were running an Islamic airline and who in their right-mind would want to fly on one of those?

How about race? Can I put up a "NO BLACKS" sign on my restaurant door if it's a "sincere" religious belief?

I’m very Libertarian about such things and if you don’t want to serve blacks…don’t. I don’t think you’ll be in business for very long, but sure, refuse to serve blacks or whites or Asians or Indians or whatever you like. I’ll be happy to patronize your competition.

If that's your opinion, just say so. "I think businesses should be able to discriminate on the basis of race, gender, religion, or sexuality."

See above.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

It's not likely, and though on occasion it grates on me that churches so often enjoy what seems at times special legal privileges in multiple cases, pragmatically it serves a useful purpose. Whether I like it or not, the majority of the country is Christian, and by allowing them their own special rights it gives secularists and them the leeway to find room for compromise. As a result, we get a [largely] secular political system, and churches can avoid taxes, fire women for being pregnant, refuse to marry homosexual couples, and pedophile priests can be carted from church to church instead of instantly being thrown in prison like everyone else.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

I am personally not aware of any church denying to marry interracial, black, previously divorced couples, etc. Nor am I aware of any Scriptures that prohibit the marrying of interracial, black, previously divorced couples, etc. However, the Bible does prohibits homosexual behavior (and that would include--by default--homosexual marriage).

And it is primarily the Catholic Church that has been fighting with Obama with regard to abortion and Obamacare but that is another debate.

Church refuses to marry black couple in Mississippi - CNN.com Mississippi church refuses black couple.

Interracial Couple Spurned - ABC News Ohio church refuses interracial couple

Here's one that refused a wedding because the preached didn't like the brides dress.
Pastor Refuses to Perform Ceremony because of Bride's 'Sexy Dress' - AmericaPreachers.com


I see you have nothing on a CHURCH being forced to pay for abortions.

For starters, all churches—or any other type of house of worship— are expressly exempted from the requirement that they offer health insurance to their employees that includes any provision for contraception. The issue under discussion involves whether other entities owned and operated by a church should be obligated to do so under the law.
Drugs, such as RU486 that cause a woman to abort a pregnancy, are not included in the law or regulations. Nothing would require a health insurance company to include this in their policy offerings and, certainly, nothing would require anyone to take such a pill.
The Truth About Contraception, Obamacare And The Church - Forbes
 
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