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Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

  • Total voters
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Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

roguenuke said:
Does not fit the vast majority of same sex marriage supporters.
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Yea, right. Just the ones that would change forever the definition of "marriage" or force those that do not support such marriages from running perfectly legal businesses.

Don't want to bake a wedding cake or take pictures of a homosexual wedding?

Then for the "greater good" and in the interest of "fairness" you must be sued and run out of business!

The exact same thing will happen with churches. It's only a matter of time.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

AGENT J said:
Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?
no
yes
other

Until equal rights was given to gays in large ways, personally, Ive never heard this argument which i consider to be completely irrational, a simple fear tactic and conspiracy theory.

I see no rational basis for this fear based on equal rights for gays since there are rights, laws, the constitution and countless court case precedences blocking something this stupid.

I havent met one person that thinks churches should be forced and the reality is churches already (before gay rights) legally discriminate on marriages probably in the 1000s a day in this country and always have.

They have against straight couples, gay couples, based on race, based on religion etc etc etc
why now, magically, will this change?
why was it not a fear when minority rights were granted? womans rights? and its never been a fear based on religious discrimination?

I see ZERO logic in something so absurd BUT, I'm very curious how many people fear this lunacy and thier reasonings . . . maybe im missing something completely logical. SO far I havent seen any, so please share if it happens youll get to do a big I TOLD YOU SO lol

anyway my vote is no . . HELL NO lol

also FYI if i ever did see it as a reasonable possibility i would fight my way to the front of the line to fight it tooth and nail!
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In today's day and age, not much surprises me anymore. I do not think any church should be required to marry anyone for whatever reason. Is it irrational to fear that a church might be forced to, maybe, maybe not.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

The Baron said:
Yea, right. Just the ones that would change forever the definition of "marriage" or force those that do not support such marriages from running perfectly legal businesses.

Don't want to bake a wedding cake or take pictures of a homosexual wedding?

Then for the "greater good" and in the interest of "fairness" you must be sued and run out of business!

The exact same thing will happen with churches. It's only a matter of time.
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Oh, complaining because you don't actually own the definition of any word again? Too bad. Part of language, part of life is that things, including words, change. That is not something outside of the norm at all.

If someone doesn't want to bake a wedding cake or photograph an interracial or interfaith wedding or the wedding of someone of a certain faith, they too are sued and "run out of business" because it is illegal discrimination based on protected classification and viewed as wrong by enough people to lead to a person not getting enough business for their poor business decisions.

There is absolutely no proof at all that churches would ever be forced to perform weddings for anyone they don't want to and a lot of evidence that this won't happen. Or are you of the mindset that the only people that have ever filed discrimination lawsuits against any businesses are gays? If so, you would be greatly mistaken.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Perotista said:
In today's day and age, not much surprises me anymore. I do not think any church should be required to marry anyone for whatever reason. Is it irrational to fear that a church might be forced to, maybe, maybe not.
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But nobody in any position of authority has even suggested that actual churches should be required to do so. We're just seeing the religious pretending that anyone who has any kind of vague religious belief, or even says that they do, ought to have all the rights and privileges of a legally established church. That's utterly insane.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Cephus said:
But nobody in any position of authority has even suggested that actual churches should be required to do so. We're just seeing the religious pretending that anyone who has any kind of vague religious belief, or even says that they do, ought to have all the rights and privileges of a legally established church. That's utterly insane.
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I don't know. I have seen a lot of stuff done in the name of anti-religion. If sometime in the future this came to pass, it wouldn't surprise me at all. It seems we have gone from freedom of religion to freedom from religion in today's society.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Perotista said:
I don't know. I have seen a lot of stuff done in the name of anti-religion. If sometime in the future this came to pass, it wouldn't surprise me at all. It seems we have gone from freedom of religion to freedom from religion in today's society.
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Freedom of religion and freedom from religion are one and the same thing. Everyone has a right to the religion of their choice within their own heads and within their own homes and churches, assuming they harm no one in the practice of their religion. Religious beliefs do not free you from following the law, regardless of what you believe. You don't get to ignore taxes. You don't get to engage in human sacrifice. You don't get to discriminate against others. You don't get to fly airplanes into buildings. We have a social standard of behavior that applies to *EVERYONE* in public. One's internal religious beliefs do not make one immune.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Perotista said:
I don't know. I have seen a lot of stuff done in the name of anti-religion. If sometime in the future this came to pass, it wouldn't surprise me at all. It seems we have gone from freedom of religion to freedom from religion in today's society.
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It seems to me that in recent years, we've seen some lines crossed that would have seemed insanely unlikely not many years before.

The line from where we seem to be now, to forcing churches to conduct immoral homosexual mockeries of weddings seems awfully thin compared to many of the lines that have already been crossed.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Cephus said:
Freedom of religion and freedom from religion are one and the same thing. Everyone has a right to the religion of their choice within their own heads and within their own homes and churches, assuming they harm no one in the practice of their religion. Religious beliefs do not free you from following the law, regardless of what you believe. You don't get to ignore taxes. You don't get to engage in human sacrifice. You don't get to discriminate against others. You don't get to fly airplanes into buildings. We have a social standard of behavior that applies to *EVERYONE* in public. One's internal religious beliefs do not make one immune.
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Seems to me that when crosses can't be displayed in cemeteries that is carrying freedom from religion way too far. Crosses over the dead do not always refer to religion anyway. It is just a simple way to mark a grave. No it would not surprise me one bit in today's freedom from religion that the only place soon where one can practice it and show their religious beliefs would be home and in church.

A cross in a cemetery isn't forcing anyone's religion on anybody. So we go to this freedom from religion doctrine of today.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Perotista said:
Seems to me that when crosses can't be displayed in cemeteries that is carrying freedom from religion way too far. Crosses over the dead do not always refer to religion anyway. It is just a simple way to mark a grave. No it would not surprise me one bit in today's freedom from religion that the only place soon where one can practice it and show their religious beliefs would be home and in church.

A cross in a cemetery isn't forcing anyone's religion on anybody. So we go to this freedom from religion doctrine of today.
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Has anyone forced a cemetery to remove crosses? I haven't heard that one. Most cemeteries are on private property, not public.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Perotista said:
Seems to me that when crosses can't be displayed in cemeteries that is carrying freedom from religion way too far. Crosses over the dead do not always refer to religion anyway. It is just a simple way to mark a grave. No it would not surprise me one bit in today's freedom from religion that the only place soon where one can practice it and show their religious beliefs would be home and in church.

A cross in a cemetery isn't forcing anyone's religion on anybody. So we go to this freedom from religion doctrine of today.
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Who is trying to remove crosses from cemeteries, or more accurately - can you support that with a link about such a story in this country from a credible news source?


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Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Cephus said:
Has anyone forced a cemetery to remove crosses? I haven't heard that one. Most cemeteries are on private property, not public.
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Sure they have, there was on in California that was talked about a whole bunch on here last year. Then there is that little town that had to take down a statue of a soldier kneeing by a cross that marked a fallen comrade. That was on the new last week.

The town owned the property so I guess that was public land. This whole thing has gone crazy. At least in my point of view.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

WorldWatcher said:
Who is trying to remove crosses from cemeteries, or more accurately - can you support that with a link about such a story in this country from a credible news source?


>>>>
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Sure they have, there was on in California that was talked about a whole bunch on here last year. Then there is that little town that had to take down a statue of a soldier kneeing by a cross that marked a fallen comrade. That was on the new last week.

I am sure you could google them.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Cephus said:
Freedom of religion and freedom from religion are one and the same thing.
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Usually, when I've enciuntered the term “freedom from religion”, it has been strongly associated with, at best, a grudging acceptance that some people may hold religious beliefs, but a desire that they be prevented from publicly expressing any such beliefs, or from allowing these beliefs to influence the way they conduct themselves in public, the way they run their businesses, how they vote, and so on. Not at all consistent with what is meant by “freedom of religion”, especially when considered along with freedoms of speech, press, and association.
 
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Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Perotista said:
Sure they have, there was on in California that was talked about a whole bunch on here last year. Then there is that little town that had to take down a statue of a soldier kneeing by a cross that marked a fallen comrade. That was on the new last week.

I am sure you could google them.
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The kneeling soldier was not a specific soldier. And it is being replaced by simply a kneeling soldier, as most places have. Plus, it wasn't in a cemetary. And part of the issue was the Christian flag being flown over it.

North Carolina City Removes Statue of Soldier Kneeling Before Cross | Military.com

The other cross was still just a cross on public land, not in a cemetary.

U.S. judge orders landmark California cross taken down
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Perotista said:
Sure they have, there was on in California that was talked about a whole bunch on here last year. Then there is that little town that had to take down a statue of a soldier kneeing by a cross that marked a fallen comrade. That was on the new last week.

The town owned the property so I guess that was public land. This whole thing has gone crazy. At least in my point of view.
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Then as public land, they cannot endorse any particular religion. In that particular case, unless they were actively restricting other religious symbols, they weren't actually breaking the law, they cannot show preference, they have to allow any religion to be equally represented or no religion to be represented. I can't speak to that case because I don't know the situation though.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Bob Blaylock said:
Usually, when I've enciuntered the term “freedom from religion”, it has been strongly associated with, at best, a grudging acceptance that some people may hold religious beliefs, but a desire that they be prevented from publicly expressing any such beliefs, or from allowing these beliefs to influence the way they conduct themselves in public, the way they run their businesses, how they vote, and so on. Not at all consistent with what is meant by “freedom of religion”, especially when considered along with freedoms of speech, press, and association.
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It's exactly the same though. Freedom if speech is freedom for all to speak their mind, or not to do so if they choose not to. You cannot permit one kind and not another kind, that's why any kind of blasphemy law is unConstitutional. Because public lands and public businesses are supposed to represent all and be equally accessible to all, the laws are written such that there is a standard of acceptable behavior that everyone has to abide by. One business can't be open to only Catholics and the one next door only to whites and the one next door to that only to women. All must be open to all. If you don't like that, by all means start a non-profit church where you are legally permitted to discriminate.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Perotista said:
Sure they have, there was on in California that was talked about a whole bunch on here last year.
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I've been on political message boards since 2004, no I don't remember any bru-ha-ha about cemeterieis having to remove crosses in California or anywhere else in this country.

Perotista said:
I am sure you could google them.
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Sorry, you are the one that claimed crosses were being removed from cemeteries, the burden is on you to substantiate your claims.

It's typically considered poor message board etiquette to ask someone else to find proof of the things you claim.


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Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

WorldWatcher said:
I've been on political message boards since 2004, no I don't remember any bru-ha-ha about cemeterieis having to remove crosses in California or anywhere else in this country.
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It wasn't a cemetery, someone posted the link to the story above. So long as the cemetery is private, as most are, people can put in whatever they want. In fact, it seems to me that these cities who have public cemeteries could just solve the problem by selling the land and the burial business to a local business at fair market prices. Funny how none of them want to do so.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Cephus said:
It wasn't a cemetery, someone posted the link to the story above. So long as the cemetery is private, as most are, people can put in whatever they want. In fact, it seems to me that these cities who have public cemeteries could just solve the problem by selling the land and the burial business to a local business at fair market prices. Funny how none of them want to do so.
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The religious symbols on headstones are not an issue and there are a large number of cemeteries that are not run by cities -- states and the federal government often operate veteran's cemeteries individually or in partnership. It is not the government that picks the religious symbol that appears on the sailor/soldier/airman/marines headstone. It is the individual themselves or the next of kin after their passing.

There is wide range of emblems available so that no one religion has preference -->> Available Emblems of Belief for Placement on Government Headstones and Markers - National Cemetery Administration



>>>>
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

roguenuke said:
The kneeling soldier was not a specific soldier. And it is being replaced by simply a kneeling soldier, as most places have. Plus, it wasn't in a cemetary. And part of the issue was the Christian flag being flown over it.

North Carolina City Removes Statue of Soldier Kneeling Before Cross | Military.com

The other cross was still just a cross on public land, not in a cemetary.

U.S. judge orders landmark California cross taken down
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I don't think it matters, it still isn't right. It is the anti religious having no respect for the religious. It is wanting everyone not to be religious at all.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

WorldWatcher said:
The religious symbols on headstones are not an issue and there are a large number of cemeteries that are not run by cities -- states and the federal government often operate veteran's cemeteries individually or in partnership. It is not the government that picks the religious symbol that appears on the sailor/soldier/airman/marines headstone. It is the individual themselves or the next of kin after their passing.

There is wide range of emblems available so that no one religion has preference -->> Available Emblems of Belief for Placement on Government Headstones and Markers - National Cemetery Administration



>>>>
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Yeah, and those aren't even under any real threat, but there have been some conservative nut balls putting out for years that the ACLU is fighting for the removal of these crosses, something that has no evidence to support for the at least 6 years it has been being put out, and in fact something the ALCU denies they have ever tried to do. And you can bet, that if the ACLU felt it was a problem, they wouldn't lie about their feelings on this.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Cephus said:
Then as public land, they cannot endorse any particular religion. In that particular case, unless they were actively restricting other religious symbols, they weren't actually breaking the law, they cannot show preference, they have to allow any religion to be equally represented or no religion to be represented. I can't speak to that case because I don't know the situation though.
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Everything was alright until one person decided to ruin it for everyone else. No respect from folks today.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Perotista said:
I don't think it matters, it still isn't right. It is the anti religious having no respect for the religious. It is wanting everyone not to be religious at all.
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Sure it matters because there is a difference in crosses on public land and crosses in cemetaries, over/as part of tomb stones.

And this isn't about not wanting anyone to be religious at all, but rather not having the government appear to endorse any specific religion.
 
Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

Perotista said:
Everything was alright until one person decided to ruin it for everyone else. No respect from folks today.
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"Everyone was perfectly fine with all the hazing until someone had to ruin it for everyone and show how humiliating and degrading it really was but people wanted to do it to fit in."
 
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