View Poll Results: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

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Thread: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

  1. #301
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsgirl View Post
    YOU made the claim, now back it up. I'm not going to do your research for you.
    See my post no. 296.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  2. #302
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    I’m simply illustrating a point.

    I never said that was a “serious effort”. All I said was that “[t]here is already talk about removing church's tax exempt status. I suspect that some church's will ‘knuckle-under’ to keep thier tax exempt status by agreeing to marrying homosexual couples.”

    That was my original comment and I still believe as much.

    And yet not one Republican voted for it.

    Pathetic.

    I do hope you can do better than this.

    I didn’t say anything about a “significant portion of people” and don’t believe that it will require that. Obamacare passed with a majority of Americans against it.

    I never stated that.

    You can find a lunatic who refuses to marry some arbitrary couple for any reason which is something far different from a religion as a whole not wanting to marry a homosexual couples due to religious objections.
    There have been serious suggestions by many more Christians to make Christianity the US's official religion ("we're a Christian nation, other people need to accept that fact"), execute or at least imprison homosexuals and others who are "sinning" (according to our beliefs), prevent women from voting/using birth control, and many other ridiculous notions that I don't think are very likely to happen despite the fact that many seriously suggest they should, certainly many more and with much more power than anyone you can show has "seriously suggested" that churches that refuse to perform marriages for same sex couples should lose their tax exempt status or even that all churches simply should lose tax exemption.

    Christianity As State Religion Supported By One-Third Of Americans, Poll Finds

    Santorum: States Should Have The Right To Outlaw Birth Control | ThinkProgress

    This is just two of those things I mentioned. Googling found many more results, some of which we have seen on here. (Heck we've had several posters who suggest pretty much all of these things.

    Can you show me even similar results for removing tax exempt status for churches altogether let alone just for those churches who won't perform marriages for same sex couples? I want an actual link, not just that you can.

    Oh, and as for no Republicans voting for Obamacare it is because of the additional things that Obama/Democrats included that Republicans didn't like, expanding Medicaid/Medicare and the regulations/rules insurance companies and employers had to follow. Republicans wanted individuals to be forced to simply have to get insurance even if their employers didn't offer it and it cost them an arm and a leg to purchase.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 01-21-15 at 02:28 PM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #303
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    See my post no. 296.
    People discuss many things.

    there are 6,734,000 hits on do aliens exist.

    Does that mean that you actually believe that aliens exist? OR Does it mean that people are asking a question or having a discussion?

    I discuss many different topics, that does not mean the they have any real chance of happening. Just like people discussing taxing churches. Unless you can show that someone with the power to make it happen is trying, then it is all internet chatter.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
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  4. #304
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There have been serious suggestions by many more Christians to make Christianity the US's official religion ("we're a Christian nation, other people need to accept that fact"), execute or at least imprison homosexuals and others who are "sinning" (according to our beliefs), prevent women from voting/using birth control, and many other ridiculous notions that I don't think are very likely to happen despite the fact that many seriously suggest they should, certainly many more and with much more power than anyone you can show has "seriously suggested" that churches that refuse to perform marriages for same sex couples should lose their tax exempt status or even that all churches simply should lose tax exemption.
    1. I’ve never heard anyone suggest that Christianity be a Federally sponsored religions. I’ve heard states say as much (historically) as all of the original 13 states had state-sponsored religions (all Christian). Even the Northwest Ordinance (what you had to follow to become a state) required that “religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged” (Article III)--and that “religion” they were talking about was Christianity.

    2. I’ve never heard of any Christian say they wanted to imprison or kill gay folks in this country. There are some horrible things being done in Uganda today with respect to gays and these folks that are tormenting them are not following the Bible and so they can’t defend their actions from a Christian view (even if they "wrap" themselves in Christianity or anything else for that matter). I’ve heard a lot of non-Christians say as much (Westboro Baptist) and I have no idea how they can call themselves “Christian”. Now left-wingers (nazis, communist and democrats like the Westboro Retards) want to jail and kill gays. History proves that.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    This is just two of those things I mentioned. Googling found many more results, some of which we have seen on here. (Heck we've had several posters who suggest pretty much all of these things.
    All that proves is what we both already know to be true…stupid people are everywhere!

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Can you show me even similar results for removing tax exempt status for churches altogether let alone just for those churches who won't perform marriages for same sex couples? I want an actual link, not just that you can.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/ny...rove.html?_r=0

    Church loses tax-exempt status

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Oh, and as for no Republicans voting for Obamacare it is because of the additional things that Obama/Democrats included that Republicans didn't like, expanding Medicaid/Medicare and the regulations/rules insurance companies and employers had to follow. Republicans wanted individuals to be forced to simply have to get insurance even if their employers didn't offer it and it cost them an arm and a leg to purchase.
    Actually the individual mandate is what Republicans oppose as evidenced by the fact that not one single Republican voted for that unconstitutional bill.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  5. #305
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    1. I’ve never heard anyone suggest that Christianity be a Federally sponsored religions. I’ve heard states say as much (historically) as all of the original 13 states had state-sponsored religions (all Christian). Even the Northwest Ordinance (what you had to follow to become a state) required that “religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged” (Article III)--and that “religion” they were talking about was Christianity.

    2. I’ve never heard of any Christian say they wanted to imprison or kill gay folks in this country. There are some horrible things being done in Uganda today with respect to gays and these folks that are tormenting them are not following the Bible and so they can’t defend their actions from a Christian view (even if they "wrap" themselves in Christianity or anything else for that matter). I’ve heard a lot of non-Christians say as much (Westboro Baptist) and I have no idea how they can call themselves “Christian”. Now left-wingers (nazis, communist and democrats like the Westboro Retards) want to jail and kill gays. History proves that.

    All that proves is what we both already know to be true…stupid people are everywhere!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/ny...rove.html?_r=0

    Church loses tax-exempt status

    Actually the individual mandate is what Republicans oppose as evidenced by the fact that not one single Republican voted for that unconstitutional bill.
    I provided you with examples of both things you claim you never heard of. Showing you that such things are popular at least to a degree, not just "discussed" in some really small sects of the population. Removing tax exempt status for churches who don't perform same sex marriages is so unpopular that it isn't even asked in any regular polls and even when it is asked it receives less than 10% of any vote, and most of those votes for it are not for the specific removal just for not performing same sex marriages, but rather because the people doing so think churches shouldn't be tax exempt to begin with.

    Westboro Baptist Church are Christians, whether you wish to claim them or not. They are also not liberals, despite your claims otherwise and they are most certainly antigay. Nazis were not atheist. They seen themselves as a new type of Christians, that rejected the Jewish roots of Christianity, rather pushing that Jesus was a warrior with Nordic roots killed by the Jews. Hitler was looking to establish himself as basically a God in Germany. He was trying to establish the state as the new religion. This is nothing like atheism or agnosticism at all. Most atheists are no more interested in establishing such a thing than most theists.

    History proves nothing of the sort you are claiming. More gays have been jailed and killed by theists and conservatives, especially Christians and Muslims, than ever killed by communists.

    Interesting how you didn't include my links proving to you that there are a lot of Christians and conservatives/Republicans that are trying to a) make Christianity the national religion (something that violates the freedom of religion part of the Constitution) and b) wanting to kill/imprison gays. Look at Russia. Christianity, fundamental Christianity is what is leading to the laws there. Definitely not communism, socialism, Nazism, or liberalism.

    That group in your first link was not a church. The second link was about a church that did something that violated the separation of church and state, involving themselves directly in politics, something churches agree not to do in order to maintain their tax exempt status as a church.

    Them not voting for it does not prove that they felt the individual mandate was what they opposed. It can most certainly show exactly what I claimed, that it was the other parts of the ACA that they opposed, only claiming the individual mandate because they knew that was the part the majority of Americans opposed.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #306
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I provided you with examples of both things you claim you never heard of...in some really small sects of the population...
    Even if they are just small sects of the population?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Removing tax exempt status for churches who don't perform same sex marriages is so unpopular that it isn't even asked in any regular polls...
    Once again, I just have an opinion. Once upon a time nobody ever thought there would be such a thing as “homosexual marriage”. It was simply a ludicrous thought and nobody took it seriously. Now it’s a reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Westboro Baptist Church are Christians…
    Lots of people claim to be “Christian”. Even Jesus touched on this in Matthew 7:21-23.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    …whether you wish to claim them or not. They are also not liberals, despite your claims otherwise and they are most certainly antigay.
    Liberals? I have no idea but the Westboro bunch are Democrats. That’s a matter of record and not up for debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Nazis were not atheist...
    No they weren’t atheist but as you indicate they were occultist.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Hitler was looking to establish himself as basically a God in Germany.
    Yes, I was just watching something on TV about that this weekend. A propaganda video showed school children singing Hitler’s praises. Jeez! Let’s hope there’s never another megalomaniac psychopath that ever encourages that kind of thing again.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    He was trying to establish the state as the new religion...Most atheists are no more interested in establishing such a thing than most theists.
    Well, which was it? Was he trying to establish himself as God or the state?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    History proves nothing of the sort you are claiming. More gays have been jailed and killed by theists and conservatives, especially Christians and Muslims, than ever killed by communists.
    Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?-76278-jpg

    1. Notice the triangles? It means they're gay! (I have no idea what triangles and homosexuality have in common.)

    2. I can’t speak for Muslims. They’re whako!

    3. Please provide evidence and numbers of gay men and women killed by “theist and conservatives”.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Interesting how you didn't include my links proving to you that there are a lot of Christians and conservatives/Republicans that are trying to…
    a) make Christianity the national religion (something that violates the freedom of religion part of the Constitution) and…
    You posted an irrelevant article that showed that a minority of Americans support a state religion. The same article showed that 58% of Americans (incorrectly) believed that it was unconstitutional (which it is at a federal level). So what?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    b) wanting to kill/imprison gays. Look at Russia. Christianity, fundamental Christianity is what is leading to the laws there.
    I’ve no idea what is “leading to the laws there” but Christianity certainly does not require the imprisonment or killing of gay people.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Definitely not communism, socialism, Nazism, or liberalism.
    Yea, Nazis, communists and other leftist have always been friendly to gay folks. I’ve not idea in what universe that may be true but it’s definitely not this one.

    I’m also a little disappointed in your grasp on history. I’ve debated you before and you’re not stupid. You should know better.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    That group in your first link was not a church.
    I know. I was just trying to make a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The second link was about a church that did something that violated the separation of church and state, involving themselves directly in politics, something churches agree not to do in order to maintain their tax exempt status as a church.
    1. Churches never agreed to not get involved in politics? In fact, churches in this country have a long history of getting involved in politics!

    2. How come this never applies to black churches? Black leaders get in pulpits all over the South and talk about politics and invite politicians to speak from the pulpit and nobody ever says anything. Odd.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It can most certainly show exactly what I claimed, that it was the other parts of the ACA that they opposed, only claiming the individual mandate because they knew that was the part the majority of Americans opposed.
    And yet it’s the individual mandate that has been debated as being unconstitutional. Odd.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  7. #307
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Uh...no

    No I don't think it is likely or rational.

    Why are you polling the obvious?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  8. #308
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Uh...no

    No I don't think it is likely or rational.

    Why are you polling the obvious?

    while i agree that it is OBVIOUS that its not likely or rational im asking because it seems there are about a handful maybe two handfuls of illogical conspiracy theorists that not only insist thats its an honest idea but that its already happening in ways lol

    so i wanted to know who and if ANYBODY could explain based on LEGALITY how it could be and so far nothing . . .
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  9. #309
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    Even if they are just small sects of the population?

    Once again, I just have an opinion. Once upon a time nobody ever thought there would be such a thing as “homosexual marriage”. It was simply a ludicrous thought and nobody took it seriously. Now it’s a reality.

    Lots of people claim to be “Christian”. Even Jesus touched on this in Matthew 7:21-23.

    Liberals? I have no idea but the Westboro bunch are Democrats. That’s a matter of record and not up for debate.

    No they weren’t atheist but as you indicate they were occultist.

    Yes, I was just watching something on TV about that this weekend. A propaganda video showed school children singing Hitler’s praises. Jeez! Let’s hope there’s never another megalomaniac psychopath that ever encourages that kind of thing again.

    Well, which was it? Was he trying to establish himself as God or the state?

    1. Notice the triangles? It means they're gay! (I have no idea what triangles and homosexuality have in common.)

    2. I can’t speak for Muslims. They’re whako!

    3. Please provide evidence and numbers of gay men and women killed by “theist and conservatives”.

    You posted an irrelevant article that showed that a minority of Americans support a state religion. The same article showed that 58% of Americans (incorrectly) believed that it was unconstitutional (which it is at a federal level). So what?

    I’ve no idea what is “leading to the laws there” but Christianity certainly does not require the imprisonment or killing of gay people.

    Yea, Nazis, communists and other leftist have always been friendly to gay folks. I’ve not idea in what universe that may be true but it’s definitely not this one.

    I’m also a little disappointed in your grasp on history. I’ve debated you before and you’re not stupid. You should know better.
    First of all, your first comment was based on something I never said but rather you purposely deleting parts of my post and selecting certain phrases that make it much different than what I posted. You should not be doing that if you want to be considered in any way an honest poster. It is very dishonest to do such a thing. This is what I posted.

    I provided you with examples of both things you claim you never heard of. Showing you that such things are popular at least to a degree, not just "discussed" in some really small sects of the population. Removing tax exempt status for churches who don't perform same sex marriages is so unpopular that it isn't even asked in any regular polls and even when it is asked it receives less than 10% of any vote, and most of those votes for it are not for the specific removal just for not performing same sex marriages, but rather because the people doing so think churches shouldn't be tax exempt to begin with.
    32-34% of the US population is not "a small sect of the population". It is a rather large percentage.

    Christianity As State Religion Supported By One-Third Of Americans, Poll Finds

    And while Nazis were imprisoning and killing gays, so was the US and many other countries. Our country had laws that put homosexuals to death and chemically castrated them long before the Nazis. Even in the early part of the 20th Century, people could still be involuntarily committed and subjected to torturous treatments, including electroshock therapy and lobotomies because of being gay. Some Christians currently run businesses that use techniques that can be considered torturous today to try to "convert" homosexuals. There are countries run by Christians (and other religions) that currently put homosexuals to death. ISIS is throwing them off of buildings. My comments on this are more than accurate. Theists and governments with religion as a huge part of the way it runs have killed and imprisoned way more homosexuals than secular governments, including Nazis.

    You don't get to disown Christians just because you don't approve of them or think they don't meet Jesus' definition. Plus, they would still be theists. And Southern Democrats are very different than the Democrats of today. If you don't know that phrase, look it up. In reality, WBC is socially conservative. That is a fact.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #310
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    First of all, your first comment was based on something I never said but rather you purposely deleting parts of my post and selecting certain phrases that make it much different than what I posted. You should not be doing that if you want to be considered in any way an honest poster. It is very dishonest to do such a thing. This is what I posted.
    I was running out of room and was going to have to spread my reply over two post so I had to delete something. You weren’t saying anything coherent so I opted to delete your words instead of my own (it was, after all, my reply).

    And I did nothing dishonest. You cited a poll that showed a minority of the population support state-sponsored religion. A minority is a “small sect of the population”.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And while Nazis were imprisoning and killing gays…
    At least you finally acknowledge that leftist murder homosexuals. Kinda makes you wonder why so many homosexuals are leftist, doesn’t it?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    …so was the US…
    Oh? Do enlighten me! I’m not aware of any laws in the United States that required the death penalty for homosexuals.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    …and many other countries.
    No doubt! Most notably Islamic countries and Uganda.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Our country had laws that put homosexuals to death and chemically castrated them long before the Nazis.
    Once again, what were these laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Even in the early part of the 20th Century, people could still be involuntarily committed and subjected to torturous treatments, including electroshock therapy and lobotomies because of being gay.
    Which laws allowed this?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Some Christians currently run businesses that use techniques that can be considered torturous today to try to "convert" homosexuals.
    Yes, I’ve heard of them!

    So exactly what did I say that you are trying to debunk?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There are countries run by Christians (and other religions) that currently put homosexuals to death. ISIS is throwing them off of buildings. My comments on this are more than accurate. Theists and governments with religion as a huge part of the way it runs have killed and imprisoned way more homosexuals than secular governments, including Nazis.

    You don't get to disown Christians just because you don't approve of them or think they don't meet Jesus' definition. Plus, they would still be theists. And Southern Democrats are very different than the Democrats of today. If you don't know that phrase, look it up. In reality, WBC is socially conservative. That is a fact.
    1. What Christians do and what Christianity dictates are often, sadly, very different things. Try to be somewhat objective when making such sweeping and damning arguments. It may help to think of it this way…while some teachers molest their students not all teachers are child molesters.

    2. Islam does kill homosexuals…and Jews…and Christians…and women…and children…and each other…so I’m not real sure what you’re point is about Islam killing people. Islam is a death cult that deifies a moon god and reveres a child molester.

    3. If you think Christians or “Christian-dominated / influenced” governments have killed more gays (or anybody else for that matter) than the Nazis or communists then you are woefully ignorant of history. I can assure you that the 20th Century is not known as “the bloodiest century in history” because of Christians.

    4. With respect to the Westboro Baptist Church, their leader, Fred Phelps, ran for public office several times…as a democrat. You can look it up for yourself.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

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