View Poll Results: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

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  • NO

    179 84.43%
  • YES

    22 10.38%
  • OTHER

    11 5.19%
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Thread: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

  1. #291
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    Undoubtedly

    And yet people are doing that very thing. As I told wolfsgirl, I just Googled “perform gay marriage or lose tax exempt status” and got 1,680,000 hits so apparently I’m not the only one pondering this notion. In my opinion, it’s just a matter of time.
    Not in any significant amount. You have a very very small, insignificant number of people making any sort of suggestion of removing tax exempt status from churches for not performing weddings for everyone, regardless of religious beliefs. The results number means absolutely zilch since it likely is mostly from people like you talking about fears of such a thing happening.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #292
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    Perhaps if you had bothered to Google the same thing you would have noticed that there are some very serious suggestions about doing exactly what I've described and not all of those are crying "the sky is falling".
    Funny, I didn't get any "serious suggestions", but rather a bunch of blogs, message boards, or question/answer sites with people speculating about it.

    https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?...&hsimp=yhs-001

    In fact, the only thing I can find that suggests this actually is people saying that churches should lose tax exempt status period. That contention is much more popular than churches losing tax exempt status specifically just for not performing gay marriages and only that.

    http://www.sodahead.com/united-state...stion-4592055/

    This poll shows exactly what I'm talking about with the comments.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #293
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    Perhaps if you had bothered to Google the same thing you would have noticed that there are some very serious suggestions about doing exactly what I've described and not all of those are crying "the sky is falling".
    Which person in a position to ACTUALLY make this happen has proposed it?
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
    R.A. Heinlein

  4. #294
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not in any significant amount. You have a very very small, insignificant number of people making any sort of suggestion of removing tax exempt status from churches for not performing weddings for everyone, regardless of religious beliefs. The results number means absolutely zilch since it likely is mostly from people like you talking about fears of such a thing happening.
    Well said.

    Anecdotally, when one or two leftists on leftist orientated forum that I was active on advocated officially coercing unwilling curches to perform gay marriages, they were quickly rejected by their fellow leftists. In the end, there is simply no mechanism to do so constitutionally- and as you mentioned, there is very little support for even making an attempt.

  5. #295
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Well said.

    Anecdotally, when one or two leftists on leftist orientated forum that I was active on advocated officially coercing unwilling curches to perform gay marriages, they were quickly rejected by their fellow leftists. In the end, there is simply no mechanism to do so constitutionally- and as you mentioned, there is very little support for even making an attempt.
    Exactly. Even here when it comes up (and I've seen it once or twice from one or two posters in the 7 years I've been here), either their suggestion is dismissed by most, those for and against same sex marriage, or the person is advocating for that removal not really because they won't perform ceremonies for gays but rather because they don't believe churches should be tax exempt at all to begin with.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #296
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Funny, I didn't get any "serious suggestions", but rather a bunch of blogs, message boards, or question/answer sites with people speculating about it.
    Really? Over a million-and-a-half hits and you found nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    In fact, the only thing I can find that suggests this actually is people saying that churches should lose tax exempt status period. That contention is much more popular than churches losing tax exempt status specifically just for not performing gay marriages and only that.
    Exactly, which is why I suspect that the one will be used to justify the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Not in any significant amount. You have a very very small, insignificant number of people making any sort of suggestion of removing tax exempt status from churches for not performing weddings for everyone, regardless of religious beliefs. The results number means absolutely zilch since it likely is mostly from people like you talking about fears of such a thing happening.
    My only point is that people are, in fact, talking about it which you admit yourself. This is how these things start. “Obamacare” didn’t “just happen”. People have been talking about socialized medicine in the US for years now. “Single-payer” won’t just happen in the US but both Obama and Reid have stated that single payer is the goal and people are talking about it. Likewise, I don’t believe that forcing churches to marry homosexual couples will “just happen” but people are already talking about it. I suspect it is simply a matter of time.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  7. #297
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfsgirl View Post
    Which person in a position to ACTUALLY make this happen has proposed it?
    See my post no. 296.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  8. #298
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    Really? Over a million-and-a-half hits and you found nothing?

    Exactly, which is why I suspect that the one will be used to justify the other.

    My only point is that people are, in fact, talking about it which you admit yourself. This is how these things start. “Obamacare” didn’t “just happen”. People have been talking about socialized medicine in the US for years now. “Single-payer” won’t just happen in the US but both Obama and Reid have stated that single payer is the goal and people are talking about it. Likewise, I don’t believe that forcing churches to marry homosexual couples will “just happen” but people are already talking about it. I suspect it is simply a matter of time.
    No, one would not be logically used to justify the other, particularly since there is no basis for doing so.

    And your contention was that there was a serious effort being made to remove tax exemption status for churches specifically because they refused to marry gays. When all but an extremists few are mainly pushing to remove tax exempt status from all churches, even those that do perform weddings for same sex couples and everyone else.

    Obamacare is much closer to what Republicans have been talking about for many, many decades than single payer healthcare. Republicans are the ones who came up with the idea that everyone should be mandated to purchase health insurance or face tax penalties for it, not those who want UHC, which is a very different system.

    And you are wrong that people, as in a significant portion of people, will try to force churches to marry anyone they don't want to, let alone gays, just as you were wrong that churches don't already refuse to marry couples for many different reasons, even when it is a class protected from discrimination in other public interactions such as hiring and doing business with the public, including race, religion, age, disability (I'm sure there are churches that won't perform weddings for people who can't have children), previous marital status, and many other reasons.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #299
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    See my post no. 296.
    YOU made the claim, now back it up. I'm not going to do your research for you.
    " May you live as long as you wish, and love as long as you live"
    R.A. Heinlein

  10. #300
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No, one would not be logically used to justify the other, particularly since there is no basis for doing so.
    I’m simply illustrating a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And your contention was that there was a serious effort being made to remove tax exemption status for churches specifically because they refused to marry gays. When all but an extremists few are mainly pushing to remove tax exempt status from all churches, even those that do perform weddings for same sex couples and everyone else.
    I never said that was a “serious effort”. All I said was that “[t]here is already talk about removing church's tax exempt status. I suspect that some church's will ‘knuckle-under’ to keep thier tax exempt status by agreeing to marrying homosexual couples.”

    That was my original comment and I still believe as much.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Obamacare is much closer to what Republicans have been talking about for many, many decades...
    And yet not one Republican voted for it.

    Pathetic.

    I do hope you can do better than this.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And you are wrong that people, as in a significant portion of people, will try to force churches to marry anyone they don't want to...
    I didn’t say anything about a “significant portion of people” and don’t believe that it will require that. Obamacare passed with a majority of Americans against it.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    ...let alone gays, just as you were wrong that churches don't already refuse to marry couples for many different reasons...
    I never stated that.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    ...even when it is a class protected from discrimination in other public interactions such as hiring and doing business with the public, including race, religion, age, disability (I'm sure there are churches that won't perform weddings for people who can't have children), previous marital status, and many other reasons.
    You can find a lunatic who refuses to marry some arbitrary couple for any reason which is something far different from a religion as a whole not wanting to marry a homosexual couples due to religious objections.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

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