View Poll Results: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

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  • NO

    179 84.43%
  • YES

    22 10.38%
  • OTHER

    11 5.19%
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Thread: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

  1. #91
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by HK.227 View Post
    1. As I've already expressed, the likeliness of success of a given lawsuit ultimately depends on the judge (or jury) rendering the verdict.
    No it does not. If it's unconstitutional, SCOTUS can grant cert and override it. In addition, there's a number of procedural standards that must be met before a case can go to trial and the appeals if it doesn't go in their favor


    Quote Originally Posted by HK.227 View Post
    If you meant something else by your question, you're gonna have to specify.


    2 & 3. https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ma...exual-adoption

    Religious institutions have for some millenia (at least since Hammurabi) been forced to act against their religious creed via litigation. We normally think of this as a good thing when it comes to stoning women for adultery and such, but the development of said trend didn't stop there, as the link demonstrates. To put a finer point (and a little more recent perspective) on it, the advent of human rights is what we normally think of as seriously curtailing the power of religion to interfere in our lives. However, the question nowadays seem to be more of a matter of if and how human rights' ability to interfere in the lives of others should be curtailed.

    This is a subset of the discussion of positive versus negative rights; if rights should be limited to someone not being allowed to actively interfere with your rights, or if they should be required to actively provide said rights for you. Or, in relation to the the premise of this thread, is it enough that a given religious institution not be allowed to interfere in marriages of people they don't like, or should they be required to provide such marriages. Well, as the linked article shows, at present churches in Massachusets are not only disallowed to interfere in adoptions of children to gay people (negative rights), they are required to let them adopt children under their care (positive rights). This is a clear example of an institution being required to actively provide rights for someone they didn't have to provide rights for earlier, and thus a trend indicator.
    How many of those cases had separation of church and state built into their constitution? Or even a constitution lol.

    Churches shouldn't be in the adoption 'business' to begin with and gay people and the adopted kids have rights that fall under compelling governmental interest. Think of a church as being *confined to a church and worship* and it really is simple. It frankly is sick that you think your beliefs can deny people the right to have kids and that is exactly the kind of mentality that makes me wish for the death of religion

  2. #92
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    I don't think churches should have anything to do with legal marriages.

    Churches are nothing more then glorified clubs. But instead of worshipping hockey players (like sports clubs) or entertainers (like fan clubs) they worship fictitious gods that NO ONE can prove ever existed.

    These pathetic and totally useless institutions should have absolutely nothing to do with legal marriages.

    You want to get married, go to City Hall.

  3. #93
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I don't think churches should have anything to do with legal marriages.

    Churches are nothing more then glorified clubs. But instead of worshipping hockey players (like sports clubs) or entertainers (like fan clubs) they worship fictitious gods that NO ONE can prove ever existed.

    These pathetic and totally useless institutions should have absolutely nothing to do with legal marriages.

    You want to get married, go to City Hall.
    They already have nothing to do with legal marriages. You can walk down all the aisles in all the churches you want, you're still not married until you get that piece of paper from the state. No church anywhere can legally marry anyone by themselves, it's all ceremonial.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #94
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/rational?

    no
    yes
    other

    Until equal rights was given to gays in large ways, personally, Ive never heard this argument which i consider to be completely irrational, a simple fear tactic and conspiracy theory.

    I see no rational basis for this fear based on equal rights for gays since there are rights, laws, the constitution and countless court case precedences blocking something this stupid.

    I havent met one person that thinks churches should be forced and the reality is churches already (before gay rights) legally discriminate on marriages probably in the 1000s a day in this country and always have.

    They have against straight couples, gay couples, based on race, based on religion etc etc etc
    why now, magically, will this change?
    why was it not a fear when minority rights were granted? womans rights? and its never been a fear based on religious discrimination?

    I see ZERO logic in something so absurd BUT, I'm very curious how many people fear this lunacy and thier reasonings . . . maybe im missing something completely logical. SO far I havent seen any, so please share if it happens youll get to do a big I TOLD YOU SO lol

    anyway my vote is no . . HELL NO lol

    also FYI if i ever did see it as a reasonable possibility i would fight my way to the front of the line to fight it tooth and nail!


    Not going to happen.

  5. #95
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Nope. But your religious beliefs have little to do with your operation of that business and are balanced against other people's rights to participate in commerce. Complain all you want, but rights are always balanced between people.
    So, should I expect to find bacon at a halal delicatessen?
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  6. #96
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    If you are forced to participate in a gay wedding, that is a loss of religious freedom. Not sure why that is so difficult to understand. What part of "free exercise thereof" do you not understand?
    As with most wrong-wing positions that cannot be reconciled with the Constitution, I do not think it is so much that they don't understand what the Constitution says on the matter, but that they disagree with it and think that it is OK, and even obligatory, that the Constitution be disregarded where it conflicts with their preferred policy positions.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  7. #97
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    So, should I expect to find bacon at a halal delicatessen?
    please explain why your question has anythign to do with the topic at hand or the post you quoted, i cant wait to read this.
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  8. #98
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    If you are forced to participate in a gay wedding, that is a loss of religious freedom. Not sure why that is so difficult to understand. What part of "free exercise thereof" do you not understand?
    ZERO people have been forced to participate in a gay wedding . . . ZERO
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    As with most wrong-wing positions that cannot be reconciled with the Constitution, I do not think it is so much that they don't understand what the Constitution says on the matter, but that they disagree with it and think that it is OK, and even obligatory, that the Constitution be disregarded where it conflicts with their preferred policy positions.
    can you give us examples of anybody in this country being forced by government to participate in a gay wedding . . . .anybody?
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  10. #100
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    Re: Do you believe the idea of churches being forced to marry people is likely/ration

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    So, should I expect to find bacon at a halal delicatessen?
    No one has been forced to sell anything they don't already offer. The only thing that changes is who is using the cake, the same cake sold to opposite sex couples. If they don't sell bacon to anyone, then they don't but they can't refuse to sell bacon they sell to only Muslims or Jews if they offer it to Christians, atheists, others.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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