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Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

  • Im a right leaning American, yes.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Im a left leaning American, yes.

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • Im not American, yes.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Im a right leaning American, no.

    Votes: 43 46.2%

  • Im a left leaning American, no.

    Votes: 37 39.8%

  • Im not American, no.

    Votes: 12 12.9%
  • Total voters
    93
Objective Voice said:
To a degree, yes. I've don't know of a church yet that hasn't benefited both financially and socially (as in "sense of community") from any marriage performed under their spire.
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How much do churches profit from weddings? I ask because my BFF is very active in her Methodist church, including being the de facto wedding coordinator. Sounds to me as if performing weddings isn't very profitable.
 
nota bene said:
How much do churches profit from weddings? I ask because my BFF is very active in her Methodist church, including being the de facto wedding coordinator. Sounds to me as if performing weddings isn't very profitable.
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I have no idea. You've have to ask each church individually and review their accounts. However, since most churches are non-profit organizations I doubt you'll ever really know the answer to this question. But I do know this: No church that I've ever attended or been member has ever performed a wedding or hosted a wedding reception for free. Even your Justice of the Peace charges a fee for the marriage license. So, let's not try to pretend that churches don't profit from performing weddings. All do no matter how large or small the event regardless if the couple is gay or straight.

Now, what you're asking is "Are weddings big money makers for the church"? I suppose if you're Kim and Kanya, Jay-Z and Beyonce', George Clooney and Amal Alamddin or "Bragelia" the church where each married would have profited greatly! But for your average, everyday church I'd have to say they make more of their money from tithes and offerings than the one or two marriages they perform once or twice per year. But to be fair, I think we can both agree those wedding services and banquet hall rental fees don't go in the church's "Expenses" column.
 
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Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

Bob Blaylock said:
That line was crossed when businesses such as bakeries and florists and photographers were successfully sued for refusing to participate in sick homosexual mockeries of weddings.

That line has been crossed, and if it is allowed to stand, then there remains nothing in the way of forcing the same thing on churches and ministers.
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Yup. The argument will be that "well you let other people who aren't members of your congregation use the church for weddings, and you take money for it, so clearly you are in the marketplace and once you enter the marketplace you are no longer allowed to express your beliefs if they violate political correctness..."
 
nota bene said:
How much do churches profit from weddings? I ask because my BFF is very active in her Methodist church, including being the de facto wedding coordinator. Sounds to me as if performing weddings isn't very profitable.
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:( they don't care if it's profitable. They care if there is a way for them to force everyone else to accept their moral positions.
 
Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

so two people so far came right out and admitted that they fear the illogical lunacy of churches being forced

no one else?

and no one has given any sound reasoning yet? i wonder why . .
does anybody have any?

does anybody have any thats just gonna make rights, the law, the constitution and the countless court precedents magically disappear?
i love when illogical fear tactics and conspiracy theories crash and burn and people dont even have the guts to try and back them up
 
Dragonfly said:
In what way?

From what I see, the overwhelming majority of people here believe churches should have complete and ultimate control over what they do and for whom.

Perhaps I don't get what you mean?
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You are suggesting to State have power over the Church? Would you go for the opposite to be true?
 
WCH said:
You are suggesting to State have power over the Church? Would you go for the opposite to be true?
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You answered a question with another question? Which in no way answers the question. :roll:
 
Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

AGENT J said:
ok that TWO people that think this lunacy is possible anybody else?

also Im curious what do YOU base this fear on?
just in your opinion the governments "lack of restraint", peoples authoritarian behavior, equal rights for gays all of the above or other things?
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Expansion of powers, forever war, increased survallence of the population, installation of corporate capitalism, the fact that we jail more people per capita than any other country in the world, lack of political competition, shutting down economic mobility, militarized police against a civilian populace, etc.

But my statement as it relates to this topic is just one of disbelief. I don't think government is a good source for limitation on government power. I don't put much faith in government's self restraint.
 
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Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

Ikari said:
Expansion of powers, forever war, increased survallence of the population, installation of corporate capitalism, the fact that we jail more people per capita than any other country in the world, lack of political competition, shutting down economic mobility, militarized police against a civilian populace, etc.

But my statement as it relates to this topic is just one of disbelief. I don't think government is a good source for limitation on government power. I don't put much faith in government's self restraint.
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so basically you fear everything that involves the government, you have zero trust in them and you have no faith in them for mostly anything
got it, thanks for answering
 
Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

AGENT J said:
so basically you fear everything that involves the government, you have zero trust in them and you have no faith in them for mostly anything
got it, thanks for answering
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Not fear, but government moves for its own interests and unless propey restrained it will trend towards tyranny. Just the nature of the beast. We can keep it restrained and it is our duty to do so. But blind faith in government? Absolutely not.
 
Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

Ikari said:
Not fear, but government moves for its own interests and unless propey restrained it will trend towards tyranny. Just the nature of the beast. We can keep it restrained and it is our duty to do so. But blind faith in government? Absolutely not.
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who mentioned blind faith? lol
so then you just worry about everything they do and dont trust them . . got it
 
Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

AGENT J said:
who mentioned blind faith? lol
so then you just worry about everything they do and dont trust them . . got it
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For the last few decades, up to a half a century perhaps, our government has been giving us a plethora of reasons why they shouldn't be trusted with just about everything.

Not sure what any of this has to do with churches and gay weddings though. :confused:
 
Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

AGENT J said:
who mentioned blind faith? lol
so then you just worry about everything they do and dont trust them . . got it
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Of course I don't trust them. Government is not a trustworthy system. Necessary, yes; but not trustworthy. We are responsible for it and it requires our input and control to keep. The founders warned us well as to this. It's a basic of government, seen time and time again in human history.
 
Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

Dragonfly said:
For the last few decades, up to a half a century perhaps, our government has been giving us a plethora of reasons why they shouldn't be trusted with just about everything.

Not sure what any of this has to do with churches and gay weddings though. :confused:
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I made the off handed comment that I don't innately trust government, and Agent pounced on it as if he had an argument. But if your read what he's written, the argument is nothing more than childish mockery, no actual argument or point.
 
Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

Dragonfly said:
1.)For the last few decades, up to a half a century perhaps, our government has been giving us a plethora of reasons why they shouldn't be trusted with just about everything.
2.) Not sure what any of this has to do with churches and gay weddings though. :confused:
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1.) i dont know if i agree with that at all
are they 100% trust worthy? of course not because they are run by people lol ;)
but i have seen nothing that makes me think that churches are going to be forced to marry people they dont want

2.) i agree i dont think it does, the general QUESTIONS and the SOME trust i have for the government is a non factor for me because i also go by evidence and logic.
 
Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

Dragonfly said:
Not sure what any of this has to do with churches and gay weddings though. :confused:
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Well, apparently many people who wish to remain anonymous think that churches should be forced.:lamo
 
Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

Ikari said:
I made the off handed comment that I don't innately trust government, and Agent pounced on it as if he had an argument. But if your read what he's written, the argument is nothing more than childish mockery, no actual argument or point.
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WOW
i did NOTHING of the sort, why do you post lies lol

I simply asked why YOU felt the way you do and you answered and I basically said "ok"
i didnt mock it in any way????

if you disagree simply qoute me and point out where "I" made an ARGUMENT over your mistrust and factually mocked it? you will fail because you invented that in your head
wow talk about posting a lie and a complete strawman LMAO
 
tacomancer said:
I think minimal standards should be enforced at least, such as building codes, fire safety, not advocating murder, etc
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They should also be expected to follow the rules of not snorting lines of coke on the altar and not torturing puppies in the rectory during Lent either. I didn't think I needed to post the obvious. ;)
 
Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

Ikari said:
Of course I don't trust them. Government is not a trustworthy system. Necessary, yes; but not trustworthy. We are responsible for it and it requires our input and control to keep. The founders warned us well as to this. It's a basic of government, seen time and time again in human history.
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yes i get it you have little to no trust for them, again thank you for answering
 
Dragonfly said:
I agree 100% with one possible exception.

I think a good many should be investigated and possibly forced to start paying taxes.
Other than that...they should have 100% freedom to be as biased, ignorant, and discriminatory as desired.
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I'm all for removing their tax exemption. (They should remove credit unions' tax exemption while they're at it)

I'm also for people having opinions that are completely different from mine without calling them names.;)
 
WorldWatcher said:
That's case "here", as in this thread, is about Churches not bakers.

But your right, bakers have a line of products they can produce. Therefore choosing not to bake wedding cakes (since if a good or service is not offered to the general public Public Accommodation laws don't apply) means the baker would not be forced out of the profession as you claimed.


>>>>
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Well, he had to pay a severe fine and was ordered to supply the cake in such cases. If I remember correctly the result was that he lost his bakery.
 
Dragonfly said:
You answered a question with another question? Which in no way answers the question. :roll:
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OK...no way should the Churches be forced to perform SSMs. [by the State]

Now you answer my questions.
 
joG said:
Well, he had to pay a severe fine and was ordered to supply the cake in such cases. If I remember correctly the result was that he lost his bakery.
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No fine has been has been levied and no they were not ordered to supply wedding cakes if wedding cakes were not a product offered to the public.


Since no fine has been levied yet, the closing of the storefront bakery was not because of the fine. The closing of the storefront was because of lack of business after their practices came to light. They closed the storefront in September 2014, but the last I heard the hearing was scheduled for October 2014 (just a couple of months ago). I haven't seen anything resulting from that hearing or if a fine had even been imposed.




>>>>
 
WCH said:
OK...no way should the Churches be forced to perform SSMs. [by the State]

Now you answer my questions.
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There shouldn't be public accommodation laws applied to private businesses in general. Owners should be able to turn away customers based on whatever criteria they choose, be it race, religion, national origin, ethnicity, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, veterans status, parental status or just because somoene walks in a pirate costume with a parrot on the shoulder going "Arrrggg Matey!".



>>>>
 
WillyPete said:
I'm sorry I don't know how to explain it any more clearly. Being religious doesn't make a person immune to local and state law.

I'm not tracking the prayer example. Do you mean school prayer? Isn't that compelling someone to pray?

When "protecting the country" can potentially mean being ordered to commit violence, surely a moral objection makes sense to some.
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But there is considerable reason to doubt that it is unconstitutional to allow the state to interfere in religious practice and force a citizen to act against the moral code of his religion. That was why we decided not to draft people into military duty at a time of war. If we thought it unconstitutional to make someone defend the country, it seems very odd that we should allow the state to force the baker to supply a ceremony his religion says is a severe crime against his God.
 
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