View Poll Results: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

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Thread: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

  1. #211
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post

    The correct way to look at it is to see the need for limits on the power of government, to interfere with the affairs of a free people.
    Which translates nicely into SSM should be perfectly legal.
    Wastin' time, like it was free - Godsmack

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.

  2. #212
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And how does that stop people from simply declaring their religious beliefs to do anything they want? You know, like not pay taxes? To sleep with underage girls? To murder people of other faiths? Where do you draw the line and how do you justify that line being drawn there?
    I think the point is to recognize that where there is such a conflict, that the burden should be very solidly and heavily on the side of government, subject to the principle of strict scrutiny, to prove a need to impose restrictions on individuals—especially where such restrictions may come in conflict with the sincerely held religious or moral beliefs of those individuals—and not on individuals to prove a need for their freedom to be respected.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  3. #213
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Which translates nicely into SSM should be perfectly legal.
    That's absurd.

    Nothing that I have said supports the deranged idea of allowing government to redefine marriage into something that it has never been, and can never be.

    Marriage is, by definition, between a man and a woman. Nothing else is marriage, an no corrupt act of government, or of a diseased society, can make it otherwise.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  4. #214
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    That's absurd.

    Nothing that I have said supports the deranged idea of allowing government to redefine marriage into something that it has never been, and can never be.

    Marriage is, by definition, between a man and a woman. Nothing else is marriage, an no corrupt act of government, or of a diseased society, can make it otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    That's the backward way of looking at it. It is not correct to state that there should be a limit to the activities or inactivities of a free people, with the implication that government is authorized to impose and enforce these limits.

    The correct way to look at it is to see the need for limits on the power of government, to interfere with the affairs of a free people.
    So you're admitting you're just one big gigantic hypocrite then?

    You can't have it both ways.

    You can't have minimal government intervention yet have government intervention into things like marriage.

    You can't say government interference is wrong then turn around and say it's right.
    Wastin' time, like it was free - Godsmack

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.

  5. #215
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    So you're admitting you're just one big gigantic hypocrite then?

    You can't have it both ways.

    You can't have minimal government intervention yet have government intervention into things like marriage.

    You can't say government interference is wrong then turn around and say it's right.
    Not at all.

    Marriage is what it is. There is no political ideology that can make it otherwise. Marriage is between a man and a woman.

    I do not see where you get from calling for limits on the power of government over the freedom of individuals to the evil desire to try to redefine one of the most essential of all human institutions into a twisted, evil caricature of itself to the destruction of any society which embraces such an act.

    In any event, to attack and undermine marriage in such a manner certainly requires a rather extreme and absurd degree of completely unwarranted government interference.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  6. #216
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Not at all.

    Marriage is what it is. There is no political ideology that can make it otherwise. Marriage is between a man and a woman.

    I do not see where you get from calling for limits on the power of government over the freedom of individuals to the evil desire to try to redefine one of the most essential of all human institutions into a twisted, evil caricature of itself to the destruction of any society which embraces such an act.
    Marriage isn't this static, unchanging institution as you and other like minded individuals think it is. It has changed and adapted to culture countless times over across the world. It is ignorant to try and establish "ground rules" for something so nebulous and changing as marriage.

  7. #217
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    I think the point is to recognize that where there is such a conflict, that the burden should be very solidly and heavily on the side of government, subject to the principle of strict scrutiny, to prove a need to impose restrictions on individuals—especially where such restrictions may come in conflict with the sincerely held religious or moral beliefs of those individuals—and not on individuals to prove a need for their freedom to be respected.
    Why? Why should the government have all the work when the people are the ones making the claims? Why shouldn't the people have to prove that these beliefs actually exist and actually stem from their established religious faith? Following the Hobby Lobby decision, people don't even have to prove the belief is true, they just have to claim that they have it and stamp "religion" on it and that means the government has to keep their hands off. That's ridiculous. I'm sure you'll stand behind this right up until Christianity is no longer in power and other religions start doing things that get in the way of Christianity, then you'll scream your fool head off.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  8. #218
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Why? Why should the government have all the work when the people are the ones making the claims? Why shouldn't the people have to prove that these beliefs actually exist and actually stem from their established religious faith? Following the Hobby Lobby decision, people don't even have to prove the belief is true, they just have to claim that they have it and stamp "religion" on it and that means the government has to keep their hands off. That's ridiculous. I'm sure you'll stand behind this right up until Christianity is no longer in power and other religions start doing things that get in the way of Christianity, then you'll scream your fool head off.
    Because government is supposed to be the servant, and the people its rightful master; and not the other way around.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  9. #219
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Because government is supposed to be the servant, and the people its rightful master; and not the other way around.
    It is the servant. It's the people who keep voting those in office into office to do these jobs that you hate.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  10. #220
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It is the servant. It's the people who keep voting those in office into office to do these jobs that you hate.
    Which is why certain essential rights are spelled out in the Bill of Rights and protected for all against the tyranny of the majority. Government is not supposed to be just the servant of the majority, but the servant of all the people.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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