View Poll Results: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

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Thread: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

  1. #201
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    But there is considerable reason to doubt that it is unconstitutional to allow the state to interfere in religious practice and force a citizen to act against the moral code of his religion. That was why we decided not to draft people into military duty at a time of war. If we thought it unconstitutional to make someone defend the country, it seems very odd that we should allow the state to force the baker to supply a ceremony his religion says is a severe crime against his God.
    There has to be a limit to what "religious practices" actually are. Some are trying to argue that anything a religious person does and can link, no matter how tenuously, to their religious beliefs, is a religious practice. That is nonsense. I've got no problem with non-profit religious churches being able to decide who they marry and who they do not marry in their church. They can decide which religious ceremonies to carry out, they can decide not to marry gay people, they can decide not to marry interracial couples, people older than a certain age, I don't care. Religious ceremonies are just that, ceremonies, these people aren't actually married unless they get a piece of paper from the state anyhow. However, when it goes beyond churches, with people simply deciding that their religion doesn't allow them to perform services which they are charging the general public for, but only for certain groups of people, that's discriminatory and should not be permitted.

    If you want to have a 501c(3) registered religious non-profit charitable organization that bakes cakes only for religious people, knock yourself out. If you try to do the same thing in a regular storefront that is open to the general public, you need to follow the laws that apply to all businesses, screw your religion.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #202
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    OK...no way should the Churches be forced to perform SSMs. [by the State]

    Now you answer my questions.
    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    You are suggesting to State have power over the Church? Would you go for the opposite to be true?
    I already have. See my previous posts in this thread.
    Wastin' time, like it was free - Godsmack

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.

  3. #203
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    I already have. See my previous posts in this thread.
    Forget it, wasn't worth knowing anyway.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

  4. #204
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Forget it, wasn't worth knowing anyway.
    Funny, since I agree with you I guess that means your own opinions aren't worth knowing either.

    Go figure.
    Wastin' time, like it was free - Godsmack

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.

  5. #205
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Funny, since I agree with you I guess that means your own opinions aren't worth knowing either.

    Go figure.
    You want to play games and not answer direct questions. I'm not going to.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

  6. #206
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Expansion of powers, forever war, increased survallence of the population, installation of corporate capitalism, the fact that we jail more people per capita than any other country in the world, lack of political competition, shutting down economic mobility, militarized police against a civilian populace, etc.

    But my statement as it relates to this topic is just one of disbelief. I don't think government is a good source for limitation on government power. I don't put much faith in government's self restraint.
    Indeed. Whenever you allow government to cross a line, you know that very soon, it will be trying to cross another.

    And we've already seen government cross a very big line, that it should never have been allowed to go anywhere near, in forcing private businesses to participate in disgusting homosexual mockeries of weddings.

    It is madness to think that having crossed that line, that government will not take that one relatively small step further in forcing churches and ministers into this evil as well.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  7. #207
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Of course I don't trust them. Government is not a trustworthy system. Necessary, yes; but not trustworthy. We are responsible for it and it requires our input and control to keep. The founders warned us well as to this. It's a basic of government, seen time and time again in human history.
    “Government is not reason, it is not eloquence — it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.” — Popularly attributed to George Washington, but the provenance is uncertain.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  8. #208
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform sick homosexual mockeries of marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    “Government is not reason, it is not eloquence — it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.” — Popularly attributed to George Washington, but the provenance is uncertain.
    Imagine what those people would have thought about corporations. If you really want to talk about force, look at big tobacco, big pharma, gun lobbies, etc.

    That's ****ing power. That's force.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  9. #209
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There has to be a limit to what "religious practices" actually are. Some are trying to argue that anything a religious person does and can link, no matter how tenuously, to their religious beliefs, is a religious practice. That is nonsense.
    That's the backward way of looking at it. It is not correct to state that there should be a limit to the activities or inactivities of a free people, with the implication that government is authorized to impose and enforce these limits.

    The correct way to look at it is to see the need for limits on the power of government, to interfere with the affairs of a free people.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  10. #210
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    Re: Should churches be forced to perform gay marriages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    That's the backward way of looking at it. It is not correct to state that there should be a limit to the activities or inactivities of a free people, with the implication that government is authorized to impose and enforce these limits.

    The correct way to look at it is to see the need for limits on the power of government, to interfere with the affairs of a free people.
    And how does that stop people from simply declaring their religious beliefs to do anything they want? You know, like not pay taxes? To sleep with underage girls? To murder people of other faiths? Where do you draw the line and how do you justify that line being drawn there?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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