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Is the left becoming more and more authoritarian?

Is the American left becoming more and more authoritarian?

  • Total voters
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TurtleDude said:
so you being a "centrist" believes that? I am no leftist and I sure do not
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The importance of the individual's inward belief is exaggerated in American society. The agglomeration of collective priorities and each individual's person contribution to it is what provides that individual's moral and ideological measure.

What good does it do if you don't believe in indefinite detention or prisoners extraneous to constitutionally-governed prisons if every single vote or donation you've ever done ultimately adds in support of such a policy?
 
Morality Games said:
The importance of the individual's inward belief is exaggerated in American society. The agglomeration of collective priorities and each individual's person contribution to it is what provides that individual's moral and ideological measure.

What good does it do if you don't believe in indefinite detention or prisoners extraneous to constitutionally-governed prisons if every single vote or donation you've ever done ultimately adds in support of such a policy?
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that is not the yes or no answer my question required
 
TurtleDude said:
that is not the yes or no answer my question required
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It's easy to see (and feel) the temptation of denying suspected terrorists - particularly of the ISIS variety - the legal right to disagree with their captivity, but it doesn't take much self-awareness to see that acting on those impulses is caving into evil.

But neither wing of Americans politics is limited to what goes on inside my head.
 
The difference between the right and the left is how they push their morals on everyone else. The end result between the two isn't all that different really.
 
US Conservative said:
You kind of make my point regarding PC-apparently its not an issue because you say its not.
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It's not an important issue because it has little to no real world implications.

And I never implied nor stated that there was a major political party called "The Left". Its a bunch of commies, socialists, etc, and they all fall under the umbrella of the democrat party-along with others.
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Your claims don't line up with your sources.
 
SocialDemocrat said:
It's not an important issue because it has little to no real world implications.



Your claims don't line up with your sources.
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Why do your replies always sound like Animal Farm?

Seeking ways to control what language people use does not come up every day? I speak every day, how many people (outside of your marxist circles in Kansas) have you heard say they love PC?

Its a very orwellian comment to make-that measure of authoritarianism imposed by the left has no real world implications.
 
US Conservative said:
Why do your replies always sound like Animal Farm?

Seeking ways to control what language people use does not come up every day? I speak every day, how many people (outside of your marxist circles in Kansas) have you heard say they love PC?

Its a very orwellian comment to make-that measure of authoritarianism imposed by the left has no real world implications.
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<implying PC is government enforced or that anyone in the political mainstream even wants that
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Well, let's see. The left doesn't want the government to intrude on women's lives when it comes to abortion, the left wants the police to stop making unnecessary arrests, much of the left opposed the NSA surveillance program and the list continues. So no, the left is not getting more authoritarian.
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The left also wants to strictly regulate what the average citizen is allowed to own, how much money they're allowed to make (and subsequently keep), what they are allowed to spend that money on, what they're allowed to say in public, what they're allowed to think, how they're allowed to educate their children (or whether they really even have a 'right' to their children in the first place), and what they are allowed to eat and drink on a voluntary basis.

You know... All for the greater "collective" good of keeping their harebrained vision of "nanny state utopia" workable, of course. :roll:
 
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US Conservative said:
I never said nor implied it was govt enforced. And my question was not solely pertaining to govt.
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So if it's not government enforced, how is it even authoritarianism?

Most people don't care about PC. The only people that care about PC are those opposed to some imaginary issue they've made up in their heads.
 
SocialDemocrat said:
So if it's not government enforced, how is it even authoritarianism?

Most people don't care about PC. The only people that care about PC are those opposed to some imaginary issue they've made up in their heads.
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Authoritarians need not be in power to display the trait.

I didn't realize you were qualified to speak for what most people care about. When did you become the arbiter of peoples concerns?
 
Here's the major difference, as far as I see it.

American "Conservatives" are moral authoritarians. That much is true. However, politically speaking, they still tend to be Classical Liberals, by and large.

As such, they can be categorized as philosophical individualists, more often than not, and aren't particularly interested in regulating individual actions. Don't "make waves," don't be a burden, don't present yourself as a threat, and avoid more blatant public displays of obscenity or vulgarity, and you're pretty much golden with most Conservatives.

Putting a few of their more prudish issues aside (drugs, for example), they really couldn't care less what you eat, what you think, or what you do with your free time. They just want you to keep it out of their face, and not to ask them to pay for it.

American "Liberals," by way of contrast, are also moral authoritarians. They simply happen to get worked up over different issues (usually those pertaining to perceived 'injustice').

In addition to that, however, they are also rather heavy-handed Statists. Some of them are even blatant Marxists and Democratic Socialists.

For that reason, they often tend to look at things from a more "collectivist" philosophical standpoint. This, unfortunately, also lends itself to a rather irksome desire to "micromanage" the affairs of others in the interests of what they perceive to be the "greater good."

Even more unfortunately, that same "do-gooder for the common good" mentality can lead them to want to micromanage culture as well. This sometimes manifests itself in an rather vindictive - and even occasionally rabid - desire to enforce "conformity" of not only action, but even private belief, where certain issues pertaining to their social or moral agendas are concerned.

Frankly, I think the modern American Left can be categorized as being "more authoritarian," on average, than the modern American Right for that reason alone. The collectivist impulses inherent to their ideological position simply lead them to seek a much, much more complete level of direct control over society as a whole than most on the Right would ever dream of.
 
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US Conservative said:
Authoritarians need not be in power to display the trait.
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Going to restate this because you apparently didn't get it the first time:

<implying PC is government enforced or that anyone in the political mainstream even wants that
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Dude, no one wants to ban you from saying "Merry Christmas" or whatever else you're concerned about.

I didn't realize you were qualified to speak for what most people care about. When did you become the arbiter of peoples concerns?
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You literally asked me how many people I've heard say they love PC.
 
US Conservative said:
But I didn't ask you about Conservatives. I asked about liberals, what is your honest assessment of the left in general? Is it becoming more authoritarian?
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Unrepresented said:
Your question is invalid, but I'll humor you with a response.

First of all let's start out with the definition of authoritarian:

au·thor·i·tar·i·an
əˌTHôrəˈterēən/
adjective
adjective: authoritarian

1. favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

Notice the part about the government. That's kinda important.

a) The left has not altered any Constitutionally protected free speech.

b)If you're trying to silence the left publicly declaring racist, sexist, bigotry, and homophobic acts as such, then you're the one seeking an authoritarian solution.

a) Americans aren't forced to engage in interstate commerce.

b) If you dislike the 10th Amendment, take your issues up with the founding fathers.

Americans identifying as liberals has increased as violent crime has gone down. Your facts are wrong.
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Speaking of rhetoric...

"Single person expresses view. Guy on internet attributes it to an entire ideology."

The debate is over with scientists, and liberals, and a good portion of conservatives. You being wrong on the issue doesn't make the other side authoritarian.

Nope. Responding to this post has made me dumber, however.
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... Take notice Unrepresented, when you reduce someone on DP to a two sentence statement you can rest assured that you've won the debate. Specially if the reply you received amounts to an anemic "nuh-uh" that avoids your point by point analysis of the poster's statements.
 
I voted NO, the left isn't becoming authoritarian.

Both parties are infiltrated by authoritarian minded people and not in the way you'd think.

We must unite to help the principled convervatives and principled liberals retake their ideologies.

And just in case you're thinking the right has nothing on tyranny:

Who halted voters in DC from having their marijuana?

Which "ideology" is infiltrating towns and local governments all over the United States?

What is the ideology of dry towns where selling liquor is prohibited, and the ideology of states where beer must be under a certain percent?

Republicans were the liberals in 1800s. They had descended from Whig politicians who descended from British Parliament which opposed the King's legitimacy. Lincoln the liberal Republican descended from the liberal Whigs, and he took the biggest government step of all to actually invade actual states, those states ruled by conservative Southern Democrats who hated a strong 'government of the people' and instead preferred their own States "Rights" along with their freedom to own other people as mere property.

And when fighting the Civil War against the government, evenly matched with the same kind of guns, the government won. Yet now the descendants of the Southern slave holders want us to believe that our guns will still beat the modern government, which today has far more powerful guns, tanks, war planes, steal fighters, invisibility suits, drones, etc (thanks to the same people trying to convince us that our guns make government fear us, when it clearly didn't fear the heavily armed South).

And on top of that, shortly after we won independence, George Washington sent soldiers to deal with people who rebelled against the tax on whiskey, and those rebels fled.

Again the government hadn't feared the citizens who had guns, who in fact fled when troops arrived). Our most powerful weapon is that being taken away by states like Florida which prevent people from voting if they've been a felon or their name resembles one (Jim Crow again anyone?) and other methods of voter suppression.

So do you want to continue feeding into the lies, or be doomed to repeat history and be allied on the wrong side of liberation?

We must unite to vote in people who will respect and compromise with ALL major ideologies instead of having a "my way or the highway" attitude (isn't a "my way or the highway" attitude the surest sign of tyrannical behavior?).

Let's stop playing into the hands of dividers and instead join up with the unstoppable walk to political reform.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Well, let's see. The left doesn't want the government to intrude on women's lives when it comes to abortion, the left wants the police to stop making unnecessary arrests, much of the left opposed the NSA surveillance program and the list continues. So no, the left is not getting more authoritarian.
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The last time I checked the left does support laws limiting the women's right to choose. That is unless somehow putting legal limits on abortion is not putting legal limits on abortion. :lol:
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Lets pretend you are right. He continued unabated. are you this partisan?

but no, he expanded it.

ACLU Report: Obama administration expands domestic spying - World Socialist Web Site
A Chronology: How Obama Expanded and Consolidated The Bush-Cheney Domestic Spy Dragnet
The Raw Story | Obama Administration quietly expands Bush's legal defense of wiretapping program
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Since Bush's antics are top secret, how does anyone know if he expanded or just consolidated? The only reason we know that Obama continued to use the same methods is because of selective leaks. Listen Obama aint no angel to say the least, but blaming him for everything and giving the GOP and Bush a free pass is just pathetic.

Why not an executive order as he said he would do?
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Sure, but where would you put the prisoners that are being kept? This has always been the problem in closing GITMO... no state in the union wants to accept them.
 
code1211 said:
I notice that you selectively edited the part that the left has chosen to execute absent due process those who would have previously been imprisoned. Pretty slippery. Just a tad leftist.

Your point is that the right is the bad guy. If the left is not doing anything in any way to reverse the acts of the right, they are complicit.

Gitmo is not a device for dealing with the citizens of the US.
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No my point is not that the right is the bad guy and the left is not.. my point is that the right is worse than the left but both are in their own ways trying to control things.

As for GITMO is not a device for dealing with US citizens.. no that is what you have Supermax for.

Your first comment regarding the race issue is non-sensical and not based in any kind of historical or current events facts.
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LOL you have an open KKK member of Congress now in a leading position in the House. The man held a speech at a white supremacist meeting and is now trying to back track and make excuses. You do not hold speeches at such places unless you have sympathy with their racist views and you certainly dont hold a speech at such a place "by mistake".
 
PeteEU said:
Since Bush's antics are top secret, how does anyone know if he expanded or just consolidated? The only reason we know that Obama continued to use the same methods is because of selective leaks. Listen Obama aint no angel to say the least, but blaming him for everything and giving the GOP and Bush a free pass is just pathetic.



Sure, but where would you put the prisoners that are being kept? This has always been the problem in closing GITMO... no state in the union wants to accept them.
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Yawn. Still going on about Bush eh?
 
US Conservative said:
Yawn. Still going on about Bush eh?
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So you are denying that he and his administration put in place the whole operation that you and other conservatives are bashing Obama on? Really?
 
US Conservative said:
Im saying it would be history if Obama hadn't reinstated the law.
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And you would be bitching about him not reinstating the law and how insecure the US has become and all that political bull****.

Also it was Bush who made most of the sunset provisions permanent in 2006. The remaining sunset provisions have to be renewed once in a while and Obama did that yes. But most the Patriot Act is law, and does not need renewal thanks to.... Bush. This means Obama even if he wanted to scrap it, could not.
 
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