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Does owning a hand gun for protection make you more safe or less safe?

Does owning a hand gun for protection make you more safe or less safe?


  • Total voters
    81
If a 2 year old got hold of a gun an adult acted irresponsibly. 2 year olds don't outsmart adults. If you are outsmarted by a 2 year old you need to consider the possibility you are not an adult. Age does not determine if someone is an adult.

I have known more people injured and killed by firearms than people who have used them for protection. From my experiences handguns have caused more harm than they have averted.

The other side of the coin is would the people injured or killed by irresponsible and reckless use of a gun not have still been injured or killed if the gun was removed from their lives. I would say that irresponsible and reckless behavior would eventually lead to the same outcome with or without a gun.

I have known more people injured and killed by firearms than people who have used them for protection. From my experiences handguns have caused more harm than they have averted.

What? How many people do you know that were injured and killed by firearms? That's not normal to know more than one, unless you served in the military or were a cop.

Also, that is not an accurate statistic at all, it's actually the other way around.
 
The woman whose two-year-old son accidently killed her was a gun enthusiast and I am pretty sure she was trained on how to use it.
"More safe" does not equal "always safe". Most of us are "trained" in how to use stairs, but we still trip or fall down them.
 
"More safe" does not equal "always safe". Most of us are "trained" in how to use stairs, but we still trip or fall down them.

But we will never get rid of stairs. Or guns.
 
What? How many people do you know that were injured and killed by firearms? That's not normal to know more than one, unless you served in the military or were a cop.

I was an MP in the military. I did not count soldiers I know injured in combat. In my 3 years as an MP I had no friends that were police that were injured by guns. None of the police I worked with ever used their gun to protect themselves or anyone else. However that was only 2-1/2 years on an isolated military post. Car accidents and being hit by cars was the major cause of injuries and death.

I had 1 friend commit suicide. I had one friend shot himself by accident/irresponsibly handling a gun. I had 2 friends shot by stray bullets in bad neighborhoods.

Also, that is not an accurate statistic at all, it's actually the other way around.

Most of my friends are hunters and have guns at home as well as concealed carry permits. None that I know of have ever pulled their gun and used it to defend themselves or someone else.

My statistics are 3 people injured and 1 dead to 0 self defense.
 
I was an MP in the military. I did not count soldiers I know injured in combat. In my 3 years as an MP I had no friends that were police that were injured by guns. None of the police I worked with ever used their gun to protect themselves or anyone else. However that was only 2-1/2 years on an isolated military post. Car accidents and being hit by cars was the major cause of injuries and death.

I had 1 friend commit suicide. I had one friend shot himself by accident/irresponsibly handling a gun. I had 2 friends shot by stray bullets in bad neighborhoods.



Most of my friends are hunters and have guns at home as well as concealed carry permits. None that I know of have ever pulled their gun and used it to defend themselves or someone else.

My statistics are 3 people injured and 1 dead to 0 self defense.

That's crazy that you know 3 people shot, and 1 other killed, by guns on accident. That's horrible to hear.
 
If they have access to loaded guns they make you less safe.

Adults too. Especially men.

"Abstract

Data from a US mortality follow-back survey were analyzed to determine whether having a firearm in the home increases the risk of a violent death in the home and whether risk varies by storage practice, type of gun, or number of guns in the home. Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 1.9, 95% confidence interval: 1.1, 3.4). They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death. The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9). Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from suicide committed with a firearm than from one committed by using a different method (adjusted odds ratio = 31.1, 95% confidence interval: 19.5, 49.6). Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.. "

Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study
 
Adults too. Especially men.

"Abstract

Data from a US mortality follow-back survey were analyzed to determine whether having a firearm in the home increases the risk of a violent death in the home and whether risk varies by storage practice, type of gun, or number of guns in the home. Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 1.9, 95% confidence interval: 1.1, 3.4). They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death. The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9). Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from suicide committed with a firearm than from one committed by using a different method (adjusted odds ratio = 31.1, 95% confidence interval: 19.5, 49.6). Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.. "

Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, that would have to be compared with data whereby having a gun in the home protected the inhabitants from harm. It is interesting data, but useless in and of itself, for the purposes of the subject of this thread.
 
More Safe
Less Safe
I don't know
Other

(This thread is not about the 2nd Amendment or banning guns, its about personal choices.)

I don't think it makes anyone safer than they'd be without one. I often picture Linus carrying around his blanket. Murder is way down on New York and other states are reporting a drop in crime rates, so I don't think THAT has anything to do with carrying: criminals are not bothered by that. I know that states that have a lot of CCW and other such carry laws have the highest rates of gun violence, so I think safety is really against carrying guns.
 
I reject the question as it is asked.

A handgun doesn't make one safe or unsafe what it does -- if properly trained to use it -- is it increases your ability to defend yourself from outside force. Be it against your person or property.

WTF does being "safe" mean? Seriously, think about this.

Safe: Less likely to be injured.
 
More Safe
Less Safe
I don't know
Other

(This thread is not about the 2nd Amendment or banning guns, its about personal choices.)

One would think that it makes someone more safe...but the actual numbers show that it makes someone less safe, usually because:

- people who are depressed or who have serious mental issues see it as an easy way out and commit suicide;
- children find the guns and decide to play with them;
- it makes it a lot easier for someone in the heat of anger (regardless of whether the anger is justified or not) to take things too far;
- flat out accidents;
- those who find themselves in real financial difficulty see that gun and decide that's a really easy answer to their financial difficulties instead of working through their financial difficulties; and
- those who think that they might be in a dangerous situation decide to grab the gun instead of calling the police or running to safety.

Yes, there are scores of millions of very responsible gun owners out there, and in a perfect world none of them would ever allow their firearms to be used for the wrong reason. Problem is, life happens. Marriages and relationships fail. Once in a blue moon the firearm is left where a curious child finds it (both my sons found unsecured firearms when they were little, and both got very, very lucky, thank God).

Unfortunately, there's a whole lot of gun nuts out there who will read the above and think that none of it makes any sense.
 
One would think that it makes someone more safe...but the actual numbers show that it makes someone less safe, usually because:

- people who are depressed or who have serious mental issues see it as an easy way out and commit suicide;
- children find the guns and decide to play with them;
- it makes it a lot easier for someone in the heat of anger (regardless of whether the anger is justified or not) to take things too far;
- flat out accidents;
- those who find themselves in real financial difficulty see that gun and decide that's a really easy answer to their financial difficulties instead of working through their financial difficulties; and
- those who think that they might be in a dangerous situation decide to grab the gun instead of calling the police or running to safety.

Yes, there are scores of millions of very responsible gun owners out there, and in a perfect world none of them would ever allow their firearms to be used for the wrong reason. Problem is, life happens. Marriages and relationships fail. Once in a blue moon the firearm is left where a curious child finds it (both my sons found unsecured firearms when they were little, and both got very, very lucky, thank God).

Unfortunately, there's a whole lot of gun nuts out there who will read the above and think that none of it makes any sense.

Meaningless, if you don't compare it to data whereby guns protected people. But please, keep repeating the false mantra. Nothing is without risk.
 
Meaningless, if you don't compare it to data whereby guns protected people. But please, keep repeating the false mantra. Nothing is without risk.

Guns are sometimes used in self defense - I've never argued otherwise. What's really hard to find, though, are those hard-and-fast numbers of guns used in self-defense.

But that's not crucial to the argument. What IS crucial to the argument is the worldwide (and very strong) correlation between guns and crime: the more guns the general population of a nation has, the higher the homicide rate that nation WILL have when compared to nations with similar governmental styles. Likewise, the fewer guns the general population has, the lower the homicide rate WILL be in relation to nations with similar governmental styles.

Yes, that's 'only' a correlation...but when the correlation is so very strong, and when it occurs in nations all around the world, then it's long past time to find out exactly why it is that there is such a strong correlation.
 
Guns are sometimes used in self defense - I've never argued otherwise. What's really hard to find, though, are those hard-and-fast numbers of guns used in self-defense.

But that's not crucial to the argument. What IS crucial to the argument is the worldwide (and very strong) correlation between guns and crime: the more guns the general population of a nation has, the higher the homicide rate that nation WILL have when compared to nations with similar governmental styles. Likewise, the fewer guns the general population has, the lower the homicide rate WILL be in relation to nations with similar governmental styles.

Yes, that's 'only' a correlation...but when the correlation is so very strong, and when it occurs in nations all around the world, then it's long past time to find out exactly why it is that there is such a strong correlation.

No, guns are often used in self defense. And any argument about whether or not guns make you safe, or, less safe must include this information, or the point is moot. Unless of course, your definition of "safe" doesn't include "safety". :roll:
 
No, guns are often used in self defense. And any argument about whether or not guns make you safe, or, less safe must include this information, or the point is moot. Unless of course, your definition of "safe" doesn't include "safety". :roll:

Got any hard-and-fast numbers from truly reliable sources showing how often they're used in self-defense?

And while you're at it, if guns are used as often as you seem to believe in self-defense, why is it that - generally speaking - the homicide rates are significantly higher in gun-friendly states than in gun-unfriendly states?
 
Got any hard-and-fast numbers from truly reliable sources showing how often they're used in self-defense?

I do not, but does that mean that variable should be ignored in a discussion about gun safety?

And while you're at it, if guns are used as often as you seem to believe in self-defense, why is it that - generally speaking - the homicide rates are significantly higher in gun-friendly states than in gun-unfriendly states?

I don't know, are they? Do you have any "hard-and-fast numbers from truly reliable sources" to back that up? While you're at it, produce "hard and fast" evidence of a direct correlation between "gun friendly states", and homicide rates. Is gun ownership significantly higher in these "gun friendly" states? What percentage of homicides involve law abiding gun owners in these "gun friendly" states?

Take your time, I realize that's a lot of information to provide.
 
More Safe
Less Safe
I don't know
Other

(This thread is not about the 2nd Amendment or banning guns, its about personal choices.)

Depends on how serious you are about education and practice.
 
We could poll those that have come close to suicide by other means, and ask them if they had a gun in their house, do they think they would be alive or not?

I personally know someone who wouldn't be alive now had he had a gun (he has since recovered and regrets ever trying to commit suicide). You could also refer to this thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/tavern/212077-dp-helped-me-save-someones-life.html - I don't know whether the subject of this thread would have or not, of course it's difficult to deal with hypotheticals.

Regardless of whether you think this is a reason for gun control or not, it's a valid point Manc Skipper brings up and is silly to just plainly dismiss and snicker at.

No it isn't and I would rather have people shoot themselves than jump in front of a truck and cause that person grief
 
Got any hard-and-fast numbers from truly reliable sources showing how often they're used in self-defense?
Okay, you might find this interesting. This was a study by the CDC, commissioned by executive order, by Obama. Gee, I wonder why the findings weren't widely reported. Has anyone ever heard of this? All of the supporters of this study are Obama supporters. I am guessing the results weren't what they were hoping for. CDC Study: Use of Firearms For Self-Defense is

The CDC’s findings - that guns are an effective and often used crime deterrent and that most firearm incidents are not fatal - could affect the future of gun violence research..

Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”

“Most felons report obtaining the majority of their firearms from informal sources,” adds the report, while “stolen guns account for only a small percentage of guns used by convicted criminals.”

Researchers also found that the majority of firearm deaths are from suicide, not homicide. “Between the years 2000 and 2010, firearm-related suicides significantly outnumbered homicides for all age groups, annually accounting for 61 percent of the more than 335,600 people who died from firearm-related violence in the United States.”
 
I do not, but does that mean that variable should be ignored in a discussion about gun safety?

If you can't show some hard-and-fast numbers about guns actually used in self-defense, then you can't claim that they are "often used".

I don't know, are they? Do you have any "hard-and-fast numbers from truly reliable sources" to back that up? While you're at it, produce "hard and fast" evidence of a direct correlation between "gun friendly states", and homicide rates. Is gun ownership significantly higher in these "gun friendly" states? What percentage of homicides involve law abiding gun owners in these "gun friendly" states?

Take your time, I realize that's a lot of information to provide.

Generally speaking, the redder the state, the more 'gun-friendly' it is, right? Right. In the list below, there's two factors that play into those standings: one, the "gun-friendliness" of the state, and two, the level of poverty in that state. Michigan's got a LOT of economic problems...but even given Detroit's devolution, it's still safer to live there than in Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi.

In other words, those states which are neither poor and least 'gun-friendly' generally did best, those who were both poor and most 'gun-friendly' did worst...and the rest are a jumble in the middle.

List of states by 2013 murder rate (the site is a left-wing site, but drew the data directly from the FBI Crime Report):

Louisiana 10.8
Alabama 7.2
Mississippi 6.5
Maryland 6.4
Michigan 6.4
South Carolina 6.2
Missouri 6.1
New Mexico 6
Nevada 5.8
Georgia 5.6
Illinois 5.5
Arizona 5.4
Arkansas 5.4
Indiana 5.4
Oklahoma 5.1
Florida 5
Tennessee 5
North Carolina 4.8
Pennsylvania 4.7
Alaska 4.6
California 4.6
New Jersey 4.5
Texas 4.3
Delaware 4.2
Kansas 3.9
Ohio 3.9
Kentucky 3.8
Virginia 3.8
Colorado 3.4
New York 3.3
West Virginia 3.3
Nebraska 3.1
Rhode Island 2.9
Wyoming 2.9
Wisconsin 2.8
Connecticut 2.4
South Dakota 2.4
Washington 2.3
Montana 2.2
North Dakota 2.2
Minnesota 2.1
Massachusetts 2
Oregon 2
Maine 1.8
Idaho 1.7
New Hampshire 1.7
Utah 1.7
Vermont 1.6
Hawaii 1.5
Iowa 1.4
 
If you can't show some hard-and-fast numbers about guns actually used in self-defense, then you can't claim that they are "often used".

Look up ^^^ :wink:

The study commissioned by Obama estimated that guns are used defensively 500,000 to 3,000,000 times a year. I'd say that qualifies as "often". :wink: :wink:
 
That's crazy that you know 3 people shot, and 1 other killed, by guns on accident. That's horrible to hear.

It was horrible. Especially the suicide. I actually offered to help him get off the drugs the night he killed himself. He had insurance and I attempted to talk him into going in for treatment. Drugs and alcohol have killed more people than guns.

The 2 black men who I worked with claim they were innocent bystanders when they caught a bullet. Both shot from behind claiming they were fleeing a situation gone wrong. They clearly put themselves in harms way too often when I was with them. In our major cities there are gun battles every day. Only when someone important is killed or the media can spin it into millions of dollars such as hate crimes are they important. Black on black don't usually make it into the news.
 
Happens. It's actually MORE of an irritant that people screw with the polls. It's a little time consuming, but I don't mind fixing them. People think they're being "cute". I like showing them that they're not.

Keep an eye out. Sometimes the fools come back and game them again.

Just an FYI it appears to have returned to how it was.
 
Got any hard-and-fast numbers from truly reliable sources showing how often they're used in self-defense?

And while you're at it, if guns are used as often as you seem to believe in self-defense, why is it that - generally speaking - the homicide rates are significantly higher in gun-friendly states than in gun-unfriendly states?

as opposed to cities with gun bans like DC and Chicago?
 
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