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The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for mor

Do you support the NYPD work stoppage?

  • No, but officers refuse to any action with personal risks

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    33
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

you are wrong, thier prospective conclusions are provided for them. ;)


but yes, you are correct, we get these absolutists who help no one.

I agree with your first sentence and I stand corrected.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

Not sure of the relevance here. I didn't make a distinction between local and federalis.

Because they are entirely different animals. The local government is a direct expression of the local people, where the federal government is a representative body having to make Solomon like choices for a very large group of disparate localities. Locally, even the average citizen's voice is strong, federally, you can barely hear them.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

I see no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Typically, I stand beside our men and women in blue. I still do.

But I acknowledge the problem, none the less.

Our police have become militarized because many of the returning veterans are joining the force. Therein lies half the problem, in my humble opinion.

The streets of America are NOT the streets of Baghdad or Kabul. American citizens are NOT the enemy or the Taliban, if you will.

This mentality does need some work. I do not agree that returning veterans make for the best police.

We would be in really bad shape without cops.




You are mistaken, the police are becoming militarized due to the DOD's equipment program, the warrior cop mentality is not due to the military veterans but departmental directives and high speed operator promises recruitment programs.


Less than 10% on average of LEO's have military experience, out of that 10% many never had any combat or patrol type experience.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

Because they are entirely different animals. The local government is a direct expression of the local people, where the federal government is a representative body having to make Solomon like choices for a very large group of disparate localities. Locally, even the average citizen's voice is strong, federally, you can barely hear them.



Are you trying to tell me you are for a small federal government but a large authoritarian local government?
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

Are you trying to tell me you are for a small federal government but a large authoritarian local government?

From the movie The Patriot

"Why would I want to replace 1 tyrant 3000 miles away with 3000 tyrants 1 mile away?"
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

Are you old enough to remember when NYC's image to the rest of the country was that of a crime spree wasteland? Travelers avoided the place and those who couldn't were advised that they would probably be mugged at least once in their stay.
Yes, that was in the 70s and 80s... when national crime rates were on the rise.


How do you think they came back from that? By enforcing ALL their laws.
Uh huh

1) Crime rates didn't just go down in NYC, they went down nationally, and in cities with a variety of different approaches to policing.

2) People have all sorts of theories about why crime has gone down. Abolishing lead paint and leaded gas, legalized abortion, stop & frisk, the rise in the use of psychiatric medications, population aging, the rejection of crack cocaine, the rise in cybercrime, longer prison sentences, hot-spot policing, broken-windows policing, improved crime stats and tracking, gentrification...

At a bare minimum, tossing off an explanation like "crime rates went down because cops enforced ALL the laws" certainly leaves a lot to be desired.


Again, know how they find a ton of violent felons with active warrants? Traffic stop and stop for minor violations. Funny thing about most criminals, their criminal behavior isn't limited to felonies.
1) Please cite your research.
2) Almost half of NYC households don't own cars. Traffic stops, not likely to be a big source of popping "violent felons."
3) The NYPD spent years conducting stop & frisks on people in high-crime areas. Guess what? They didn't turn up a lot of violent felons with active warrants. They didn't make a lot of actual arrests. And of those arrests, only a tiny fraction were for the claimed purpose, namely "illegal gun possession."
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

Yes, that was in the 70s and 80s... when national crime rates were on the rise.



Uh huh

1) Crime rates didn't just go down in NYC, they went down nationally, and in cities with a variety of different approaches to policing.

2) People have all sorts of theories about why crime has gone down. Abolishing lead paint and leaded gas, legalized abortion, stop & frisk, the rise in the use of psychiatric medications, population aging, the rejection of crack cocaine, the rise in cybercrime, longer prison sentences, hot-spot policing, broken-windows policing, improved crime stats and tracking, gentrification...

At a bare minimum, tossing off an explanation like "crime rates went down because cops enforced ALL the laws" certainly leaves a lot to be desired.



1) Please cite your research.
2) Almost half of NYC households don't own cars. Traffic stops, not likely to be a big source of popping "violent felons."
3) The NYPD spent years conducting stop & frisks on people in high-crime areas. Guess what? They didn't turn up a lot of violent felons with active warrants. They didn't make a lot of actual arrests. And of those arrests, only a tiny fraction were for the claimed purpose, namely "illegal gun possession."

So you oppose crime prevention, only crime solving?

The stop and frisk policy would tend to keep people from carrying illegal firearms, wouldn't it?
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

Are you trying to tell me you are for a small federal government but a large authoritarian local government?

That would be a typical for you mischaracterization of what I posted. Whether you have a "large authoritarian local government" is entirely and directly up to you and your local community. If that's what you and your community want, then yes. Otherwise, no.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

That would be a typical for you mischaracterization of what I posted. Whether you have a "large authoritarian local government" is entirely and directly up to you and your local community. If that's what you and your community want, then yes. Otherwise, no.




I asked you a question because you are as usual all over the place with your red herrings, strawmen, and other garbage posts. You once again dodged my question.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

You are mistaken, the police are becoming militarized due to the DOD's equipment program, the warrior cop mentality is not due to the military veterans but departmental directives and high speed operator promises recruitment programs.


Less than 10% on average of LEO's have military experience, out of that 10% many never had any combat or patrol type experience.

Yeah, that makes pretty good sense too.

I found this to be a pretty good read regarding as to why today's police are going somewhat, "off da hook."
6. Police are increasingly militarized.

During President Obama’s gun control push, he argued that “weapons of war have no place on our streets;” but as Radley Balko has amply documented in his 2013 book, Rise of the Warrior Cop, local police are often equipped with weapons powerful enough to conquer a small country. Police use of highly armed SWAT teams has risen by 1,500 percent in the last two decades, and many police departments have cultivated an “us vs. them” mentality toward the public they ostensibly serve. Although possession of these weapons does not cause misconduct, as the old saying goes, when you have a hammer everything begins to look like a nail. <snip> Seven Reasons Police Brutality Is Systemic, Not Anecdotal | The American Conservative

10%? Interesting. I was sure there would be more. I tried looking it up. All I got was.. "No one (not the VA nor the DOJ) keeps statistics on how many combat vets are employed as law enforcement officers. Most of my generation has retired, so the Vietnam vets are only a tiny percentage. I am sure that the total number of combat vets has only increased slightly in the last ten years. <snip>https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130730163536AAlq8qx

And bull**** rhetoric of wannabe a soldier cops trying to place themselves on the same high ground as our soldiers. "Police officers and military veterans are kindred spirits. Both wear their uniforms with pride. Both don their uniforms to be part of a larger team of professionals protecting those who can't protect themselves at great personal risk. And both operate within a rigid command structure. <snip> blah, blah, blah............. Military Vets Joining Law Enforcement - Article - POLICE Magazine

I thought for sure there would be more than 10%. Where did you find that information? I can't find anything on that.

Happy New Year Rev.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

I suspect that at first New Yorkers will mostly support the police, but if it continues public sentiment will turn against them quickly.

What does the NYPD want? An apology from the mayor? A promise no NYPD officer will ever be brought before a grand jury? Authorizing clubbing down protesters? That every NYCer sign a pledge of loyalty to the police? They all want III full military body armor with full auto M16s? An armored car for all officers?

What - exactly - are the demands?

in all honesty, i do not have a clue what the NYPD are demanding, but as a cynic i have a few ideas.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

So you oppose crime prevention, only crime solving?
I support gathering as much evidence as possible to figure out why crime rates are falling, and using that information to develop better policies.

At this time, I don't think we have solid evidence to answer that question. That said, the evidence to support the "broken windows" model of policing is not particularly good, and there are good reasons to believe that it hampers police effectiveness.

We should also note that a broken windows policy is not the same as a beat-cop type approach, e.g. having police assigned to a specific neighborhood, who get to know the residents. "Broken windows" means aggressively cracking down on every possible minor offense. It would be like having the cops bang on your door at 7AM every Saturday morning, ordering you to mow your lawn to a regulation length.

I'm also not clear what you mean by "crime prevention." I can say that I strongly oppose the idea that the police have a justified presumption of guilt for every young male in a minority community. I also oppose policies that violate a citizen's right to be secure in their persons against unreasonable searches and seizures. Is that what you mean....?


The stop and frisk policy would tend to keep people from carrying illegal firearms, wouldn't it?
Stop & frisk was a complete and utter failure.

The NYPD conducted millions of searches, almost all in minority communities, and almost never found any illegal firearms -- even when the program first got started, as in before anyone has any reason to expect they'd be searched at random. The program was so egregious that the NYPD is now being watched by a court-appointed monitor.

Most importantly, terminating the program has had no effect whatsoever on NYC crime rates. Quelle surprise.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

Yeah, that makes pretty good sense too.

I found this to be a pretty good read regarding as to why today's police are going somewhat, "off da hook."
6. Police are increasingly militarized.

During President Obama’s gun control push, he argued that “weapons of war have no place on our streets;” but as Radley Balko has amply documented in his 2013 book, Rise of the Warrior Cop, local police are often equipped with weapons powerful enough to conquer a small country. Police use of highly armed SWAT teams has risen by 1,500 percent in the last two decades, and many police departments have cultivated an “us vs. them” mentality toward the public they ostensibly serve. Although possession of these weapons does not cause misconduct, as the old saying goes, when you have a hammer everything begins to look like a nail. <snip> Seven Reasons Police Brutality Is Systemic, Not Anecdotal | The American Conservative

10%? Interesting. I was sure there would be more. I tried looking it up. All I got was.. "No one (not the VA nor the DOJ) keeps statistics on how many combat vets are employed as law enforcement officers. Most of my generation has retired, so the Vietnam vets are only a tiny percentage. I am sure that the total number of combat vets has only increased slightly in the last ten years. <snip>https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130730163536AAlq8qx

And bull**** rhetoric of wannabe a soldier cops trying to place themselves on the same high ground as our soldiers. "Police officers and military veterans are kindred spirits. Both wear their uniforms with pride. Both don their uniforms to be part of a larger team of professionals protecting those who can't protect themselves at great personal risk. And both operate within a rigid command structure. <snip> blah, blah, blah............. Military Vets Joining Law Enforcement - Article - POLICE Magazine

I thought for sure there would be more than 10%. Where did you find that information? I can't find anything on that.

Happy New Year Rev.




There are no exact counts as you know, but there is mention of the speculation in one of your links I believe of the 10%. I've also read it somewhere else and am looking for the link.



If a cop pulls another cop over for speeding, he won't get a ticket in most cases.

If a cop pulls over a soldier for the same thing, he's most likely getting a ticket.

Kindred? I don't think so.



But I agree with evertying else. Cops got all these cool toys, and needed a reason to train with them. MRaps for all! yay!


And happy new year to you as well!
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

I support gathering as much evidence as possible to figure out why crime rates are falling, and using that information to develop better policies.

At this time, I don't think we have solid evidence to answer that question. That said, the evidence to support the "broken windows" model of policing is not particularly good, and there are good reasons to believe that it hampers police effectiveness.

We should also note that a broken windows policy is not the same as a beat-cop type approach, e.g. having police assigned to a specific neighborhood, who get to know the residents. "Broken windows" means aggressively cracking down on every possible minor offense. It would be like having the cops bang on your door at 7AM every Saturday morning, ordering you to mow your lawn to a regulation length.

I'm also not clear what you mean by "crime prevention." I can say that I strongly oppose the idea that the police have a justified presumption of guilt for every young male in a minority community. I also oppose policies that violate a citizen's right to be secure in their persons against unreasonable searches and seizures. Is that what you mean....?



Stop & frisk was a complete and utter failure.

The NYPD conducted millions of searches, almost all in minority communities, and almost never found any illegal firearms -- even when the program first got started, as in before anyone has any reason to expect they'd be searched at random. The program was so egregious that the NYPD is now being watched by a court-appointed monitor.

Most importantly, terminating the program has had no effect whatsoever on NYC crime rates. Quelle surprise.

Of what I understand of it, I don't support the "broken windows" policy.

By crime prevention I meant what I wrote. The effect of a stop and frisk program being highly publicized it hopefully for the goal that nothing illegal is ever found.

The police likely still regularly frisk people who seem poise a danger. Instead, they likely just don't report it anymore. If they find the person has nothing they just let the person go on his/her way. Nothing happened so nothing to report attitude.

The complaint was that racial profiling was alleged, if I remember correctly.
 
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Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

There are no exact counts as you know, but there is mention of the speculation in one of your links I believe of the 10%. I've also read it somewhere else and am looking for the link.



If a cop pulls another cop over for speeding, he won't get a ticket in most cases.

If a cop pulls over a soldier for the same thing, he's most likely getting a ticket.

Kindred? I don't think so.



But I agree with evertying else. Cops got all these cool toys, and needed a reason to train with them. MRaps for all! yay!


And happy new year to you as well!

Some police particularly like to pull over military personnel.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

Yes, that was in the 70s and 80s... when national crime rates were on the rise.



Uh huh

1) Crime rates didn't just go down in NYC, they went down nationally, and in cities with a variety of different approaches to policing.

2) People have all sorts of theories about why crime has gone down. Abolishing lead paint and leaded gas, legalized abortion, stop & frisk, the rise in the use of psychiatric medications, population aging, the rejection of crack cocaine, the rise in cybercrime, longer prison sentences, hot-spot policing, broken-windows policing, improved crime stats and tracking, gentrification...

At a bare minimum, tossing off an explanation like "crime rates went down because cops enforced ALL the laws" certainly leaves a lot to be desired.

Nonsense. We weren't warned we'd be mugged visiting just any large city. NYC held that distinction. For the how they did it, read some Koch.

1) Please cite your research.
2) Almost half of NYC households don't own cars. Traffic stops, not likely to be a big source of popping "violent felons."
3) The NYPD spent years conducting stop & frisks on people in high-crime areas. Guess what? They didn't turn up a lot of violent felons with active warrants. They didn't make a lot of actual arrests. And of those arrests, only a tiny fraction were for the claimed purpose, namely "illegal gun possession."

Hard to nail down stats on traffic and minor violation stops (NOT the same as stop and frisk) that give up felony warranted individuals. Look at some of the DUI checkpoint data for your locality. They typically show the number of arrests for DUI as well as warrant arrests. I know from hearing about it time after time from those who do those stops.

As for you number 2 point, silly. I didn't say traffic stops alone, but also stops for minor ordinance violations. My exact post was "Traffic stop and stop for minor violations". Interesting since you posted the quote that you would miss that.

And, on number 3 - where are your stats? And again, even IF true there is an easy explanation - those folks stopped and frisked weren't breaking the law at the time. Now go back and read the post you quoted ("Funny thing about most criminals, their criminal behavior isn't limited to felonies").
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for more serious offenses have dropped by 2/3rds.


NYPD traffic tickets and summonses for minor offenses have dropped off by a staggering 94 percent following the execution of two cops — as officers feel betrayed by the mayor and fear for their safety, The Post has learned.


[h=1]Arrests plummet 66% with NYPD in virtual work stoppage
http://nypost.com/2014/12/29/arrests-plummet-following-execution-of-two-cops/[/h]
[h=1]The NYPD's Insubordination—and Why the Right Should Oppose It[/h]http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/why-the-right-should-oppose-the-nypds-flagrant-insubordination/384140/


[h=1]NYPD Reportedly in ‘Virtual Work Stoppage’ Over de Blasio Rift
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/12/nypd-in-work-stoppage-over-de-blasio-rift.html[/h]


Do you support the NYPD work stoppage?

The President has stopped enforcing Laws too.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

I asked you a question because you are as usual all over the place with your red herrings, strawmen, and other garbage posts. You once again dodged my question.

I answered your question directly. You don't appear to read the posts you quote. As for the rest, insult away, but know that your own posts reflect those qualities with regularity.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

I support this measure only in so much that it means less petty police BS. The reasoning behind this pseudo-strike, however, is ridiculous.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

You recognize the world is a muddy place and refuse to recognize that some citizens, especially those doing something wrong, routinely lie like rugs wherever police are involved. Knowing this why wouldn't you give the police the benefit of the doubt. Especially when neither of us are party to all the facts in these cases.

Police officers are human and sometimes lie, too. The benefit of the doubt should go to citizens. The burden of proof should be on the state. Officers are actors on behalf of the state, and that's where they derive their authority. I believe most officers are good people. But I'd rather give my neighbors the benefit of the doubt.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

Did they stop responding to calls? Otherwise many traffic (there's not a lot of speeding on NYC streets) and most parking issues are not public safety oriented. They bring in revenue.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

Police officers are human and sometimes lie, too. The benefit of the doubt should go to citizens. The burden of proof should be on the state. Officers are actors on behalf of the state, and that's where they derive their authority. I believe most officers are good people. But I'd rather give my neighbors the benefit of the doubt.

This is NOT the case of humans lying occasionally. This is the case of humans beings caught doing something they know will get them in trouble/inconvenience them/cost them money/get them jail time. Folks in these situations lie. You should know that by now.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

Of what I understand of it, I don't support the "broken windows" policy. By crime prevention I meant what I wrote. The effect of a stop and frisk program being highly publicized it hopefully for the goal that nothing illegal is ever found.
From the very start, S&F had a very low arrest rate, and a very low gun seizure rate. The gun seizure rate over an 8-year period was 1 in 6000. Epic fail.


The police likely still regularly frisk people who seem poise a danger. Instead, they likely just don't report it anymore.
I don't think you understand the program.

Stop & frisk doesn't mean the cops just frisk suspicious individuals. It's a policy where NYPD officers would target specific neighborhoods, and then stop and search anyone who fit a profile (which almost always came down to young and black or Hispanic). Over 80% of people caught in the dragnet were completely innocent -- not arrested or ticketed. At its peak, the NYPD was conducting over half a million searches. Since they were targeting specific neighborhoods, that means innocent people were getting repeatedly frisked.

In addition, many of the few arrests they did make, they weren't supposed to make. In NYC, displaying marijuana is a misdemeanor (in addition to possession). The officers would frequently order individuals to turn out their pockets, and would pop the suspect for display. IIRC A federal court ordered them to stop that, too.

NYPD officers still have discretion to stop suspicious individuals and frisk them. What they can't do is sweep into a minority neighborhood and treat everyone like they're guilty primarily because they are in a bad neighborhood, have brown skin and wear a hoodie.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

I answered your question directly. You don't appear to read the posts you quote. As for the rest, insult away, but know that your own posts reflect those qualities with regularity.



You give as good as you get. Don't whine about it.
 
Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

Nonsense. We weren't warned we'd be mugged visiting just any large city. NYC held that distinction. For the how they did it, read some Koch.
Yes, I'm sure that NYC having a bad reputation matters far more than any actual statistical information, which clearly shows that national and NYC crime rates moved in tandem....


Hard to nail down stats on traffic and minor violation stops (NOT the same as stop and frisk) that give up felony warranted individuals.
Then why are you making the claim?

Either you have the data to back up what you're saying, or you don't. And no, it shouldn't be hard to nail down these stats, at least not in medium-sized cities. Many use CompStat or similar systems, many who do publish the data.


As for you number 2 point, silly. I didn't say traffic stops alone, but also stops for minor ordinance violations. My exact post was "Traffic stop and stop for minor violations". Interesting since you posted the quote that you would miss that.
Actually, what happens in NYC is that people get stopped for minor violations, it escalates, and the police nail them for resisting arrest. (There are also indications that cops lie, sometimes brazenly, about the alleged resistance.) I'm certainly not aware of any indications that violent felons routinely get popped for small infractions in NYC, hence my expressions of skepticism and request for actual evidence for said claims.

And to reiterate my point above: NYC definitely uses CompStat, and publishes the data. If they are nabbing violent felons who have open warrants during stops for minor violations, there should be no question that will show up in the data. They certainly weren't catching violent felons with active warrants with stop & frisk.


And, on number 3 - where are your stats?
Ask Google, and ye shall receive.

Stop-and-Frisk Data | New York Civil Liberties Union (NYCLU) - American Civil Liberties Union of New York State
http://ccrjustice.org/files/Report-CCR-NYPD-Stop-and-Frisk.pdf
The Statistical Debate Behind the Stop-and-Frisk Verdict - The New Yorker
NYPD Stop-And-Frisks Lead To More Marijuana Arrests Than Anything Else | ThinkProgress
NYPD Stop And Frisks: 15 Shocking Facts About A Controversial Program
NYPD Stop Question and Frisk Report Data Base


And again, even IF true there is an easy explanation - those folks stopped and frisked weren't breaking the law at the time.
What the....?

Are you really telling me it is acceptable for police to presume that someone is guilty of a crime, not because of anything they're doing, but merely because they live in a specific neighborhood? Or because a police officer decided to search them?

What country do YOU live in? 'Cause last I checked, the US still held that you're innocent until proven guilty.
 
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