View Poll Results: Do you support the NYPD work stoppage?

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  • Yes, teach the mayor and protesters a lesson

    31 18.45%
  • No, but officers refuse to any action with personal risks

    74 44.05%
  • No, work stoppage as a political tactic is not acceptable

    55 32.74%
  • IDK/Other

    8 4.76%
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Thread: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for mor

  1. #111
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    Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I suspect that at first New Yorkers will mostly support the police, but if it continues public sentiment will turn against them quickly.

    What does the NYPD want? An apology from the mayor? A promise no NYPD officer will ever be brought before a grand jury? Authorizing clubbing down protesters? That every NYCer sign a pledge of loyalty to the police? They all want III full military body armor with full auto M16s? An armored car for all officers?

    What - exactly - are the demands?
    in all honesty, i do not have a clue what the NYPD are demanding, but as a cynic i have a few ideas.
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
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  2. #112
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    Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    So you oppose crime prevention, only crime solving?
    I support gathering as much evidence as possible to figure out why crime rates are falling, and using that information to develop better policies.

    At this time, I don't think we have solid evidence to answer that question. That said, the evidence to support the "broken windows" model of policing is not particularly good, and there are good reasons to believe that it hampers police effectiveness.

    We should also note that a broken windows policy is not the same as a beat-cop type approach, e.g. having police assigned to a specific neighborhood, who get to know the residents. "Broken windows" means aggressively cracking down on every possible minor offense. It would be like having the cops bang on your door at 7AM every Saturday morning, ordering you to mow your lawn to a regulation length.

    I'm also not clear what you mean by "crime prevention." I can say that I strongly oppose the idea that the police have a justified presumption of guilt for every young male in a minority community. I also oppose policies that violate a citizen's right to be secure in their persons against unreasonable searches and seizures. Is that what you mean....?


    The stop and frisk policy would tend to keep people from carrying illegal firearms, wouldn't it?
    Stop & frisk was a complete and utter failure.

    The NYPD conducted millions of searches, almost all in minority communities, and almost never found any illegal firearms -- even when the program first got started, as in before anyone has any reason to expect they'd be searched at random. The program was so egregious that the NYPD is now being watched by a court-appointed monitor.

    Most importantly, terminating the program has had no effect whatsoever on NYC crime rates. Quelle surprise.

  3. #113
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    Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Yeah, that makes pretty good sense too.

    I found this to be a pretty good read regarding as to why today's police are going somewhat, "off da hook."
    6. Police are increasingly militarized.

    During President Obama’s gun control push, he argued that “weapons of war have no place on our streets;” but as Radley Balko has amply documented in his 2013 book, Rise of the Warrior Cop, local police are often equipped with weapons powerful enough to conquer a small country. Police use of highly armed SWAT teams has risen by 1,500 percent in the last two decades, and many police departments have cultivated an “us vs. them” mentality toward the public they ostensibly serve. Although possession of these weapons does not cause misconduct, as the old saying goes, when you have a hammer everything begins to look like a nail. <snip> Seven Reasons Police Brutality Is Systemic, Not Anecdotal | The American Conservative

    10%? Interesting. I was sure there would be more. I tried looking it up. All I got was.. "No one (not the VA nor the DOJ) keeps statistics on how many combat vets are employed as law enforcement officers. Most of my generation has retired, so the Vietnam vets are only a tiny percentage. I am sure that the total number of combat vets has only increased slightly in the last ten years. <snip>https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...0163536AAlq8qx

    And bull**** rhetoric of wannabe a soldier cops trying to place themselves on the same high ground as our soldiers. "Police officers and military veterans are kindred spirits. Both wear their uniforms with pride. Both don their uniforms to be part of a larger team of professionals protecting those who can't protect themselves at great personal risk. And both operate within a rigid command structure. <snip> blah, blah, blah............. Military Vets Joining Law Enforcement - Article - POLICE Magazine

    I thought for sure there would be more than 10%. Where did you find that information? I can't find anything on that.

    Happy New Year Rev.



    There are no exact counts as you know, but there is mention of the speculation in one of your links I believe of the 10%. I've also read it somewhere else and am looking for the link.



    If a cop pulls another cop over for speeding, he won't get a ticket in most cases.

    If a cop pulls over a soldier for the same thing, he's most likely getting a ticket.

    Kindred? I don't think so.



    But I agree with evertying else. Cops got all these cool toys, and needed a reason to train with them. MRaps for all! yay!


    And happy new year to you as well!
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  4. #114
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    Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    I support gathering as much evidence as possible to figure out why crime rates are falling, and using that information to develop better policies.

    At this time, I don't think we have solid evidence to answer that question. That said, the evidence to support the "broken windows" model of policing is not particularly good, and there are good reasons to believe that it hampers police effectiveness.

    We should also note that a broken windows policy is not the same as a beat-cop type approach, e.g. having police assigned to a specific neighborhood, who get to know the residents. "Broken windows" means aggressively cracking down on every possible minor offense. It would be like having the cops bang on your door at 7AM every Saturday morning, ordering you to mow your lawn to a regulation length.

    I'm also not clear what you mean by "crime prevention." I can say that I strongly oppose the idea that the police have a justified presumption of guilt for every young male in a minority community. I also oppose policies that violate a citizen's right to be secure in their persons against unreasonable searches and seizures. Is that what you mean....?



    Stop & frisk was a complete and utter failure.

    The NYPD conducted millions of searches, almost all in minority communities, and almost never found any illegal firearms -- even when the program first got started, as in before anyone has any reason to expect they'd be searched at random. The program was so egregious that the NYPD is now being watched by a court-appointed monitor.

    Most importantly, terminating the program has had no effect whatsoever on NYC crime rates. Quelle surprise.
    Of what I understand of it, I don't support the "broken windows" policy.

    By crime prevention I meant what I wrote. The effect of a stop and frisk program being highly publicized it hopefully for the goal that nothing illegal is ever found.

    The police likely still regularly frisk people who seem poise a danger. Instead, they likely just don't report it anymore. If they find the person has nothing they just let the person go on his/her way. Nothing happened so nothing to report attitude.

    The complaint was that racial profiling was alleged, if I remember correctly.
    Last edited by joko104; 12-31-14 at 05:04 PM.

  5. #115
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    Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    There are no exact counts as you know, but there is mention of the speculation in one of your links I believe of the 10%. I've also read it somewhere else and am looking for the link.



    If a cop pulls another cop over for speeding, he won't get a ticket in most cases.

    If a cop pulls over a soldier for the same thing, he's most likely getting a ticket.

    Kindred? I don't think so.



    But I agree with evertying else. Cops got all these cool toys, and needed a reason to train with them. MRaps for all! yay!


    And happy new year to you as well!
    Some police particularly like to pull over military personnel.

  6. #116
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    Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Yes, that was in the 70s and 80s... when national crime rates were on the rise.



    Uh huh

    1) Crime rates didn't just go down in NYC, they went down nationally, and in cities with a variety of different approaches to policing.

    2) People have all sorts of theories about why crime has gone down. Abolishing lead paint and leaded gas, legalized abortion, stop & frisk, the rise in the use of psychiatric medications, population aging, the rejection of crack cocaine, the rise in cybercrime, longer prison sentences, hot-spot policing, broken-windows policing, improved crime stats and tracking, gentrification...

    At a bare minimum, tossing off an explanation like "crime rates went down because cops enforced ALL the laws" certainly leaves a lot to be desired.
    Nonsense. We weren't warned we'd be mugged visiting just any large city. NYC held that distinction. For the how they did it, read some Koch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    1) Please cite your research.
    2) Almost half of NYC households don't own cars. Traffic stops, not likely to be a big source of popping "violent felons."
    3) The NYPD spent years conducting stop & frisks on people in high-crime areas. Guess what? They didn't turn up a lot of violent felons with active warrants. They didn't make a lot of actual arrests. And of those arrests, only a tiny fraction were for the claimed purpose, namely "illegal gun possession."
    Hard to nail down stats on traffic and minor violation stops (NOT the same as stop and frisk) that give up felony warranted individuals. Look at some of the DUI checkpoint data for your locality. They typically show the number of arrests for DUI as well as warrant arrests. I know from hearing about it time after time from those who do those stops.

    As for you number 2 point, silly. I didn't say traffic stops alone, but also stops for minor ordinance violations. My exact post was "Traffic stop and stop for minor violations". Interesting since you posted the quote that you would miss that.

    And, on number 3 - where are your stats? And again, even IF true there is an easy explanation - those folks stopped and frisked weren't breaking the law at the time. Now go back and read the post you quoted ("Funny thing about most criminals, their criminal behavior isn't limited to felonies").

  7. #117
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    Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for more serious offenses have dropped by 2/3rds.


    NYPD traffic tickets and summonses for minor offenses have dropped off by a staggering 94 percent following the execution of two cops — as officers feel betrayed by the mayor and fear for their safety, The Post has learned.


    Arrests plummet 66% with NYPD in virtual work stoppage
    http://nypost.com/2014/12/29/arrests-plummet-following-execution-of-two-cops/


    The NYPD's Insubordination—and Why the Right Should Oppose It

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/why-the-right-should-oppose-the-nypds-flagrant-insubordination/384140/


    NYPD Reportedly in ‘Virtual Work Stoppage’ Over de Blasio Rift
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/12/nypd-in-work-stoppage-over-de-blasio-rift.html



    Do you support the NYPD work stoppage?
    The President has stopped enforcing Laws too.

  8. #118
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    Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    I asked you a question because you are as usual all over the place with your red herrings, strawmen, and other garbage posts. You once again dodged my question.
    I answered your question directly. You don't appear to read the posts you quote. As for the rest, insult away, but know that your own posts reflect those qualities with regularity.

  9. #119
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    Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

    I support this measure only in so much that it means less petty police BS. The reasoning behind this pseudo-strike, however, is ridiculous.

  10. #120
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    Re: The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    You recognize the world is a muddy place and refuse to recognize that some citizens, especially those doing something wrong, routinely lie like rugs wherever police are involved. Knowing this why wouldn't you give the police the benefit of the doubt. Especially when neither of us are party to all the facts in these cases.
    Police officers are human and sometimes lie, too. The benefit of the doubt should go to citizens. The burden of proof should be on the state. Officers are actors on behalf of the state, and that's where they derive their authority. I believe most officers are good people. But I'd rather give my neighbors the benefit of the doubt.

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