What is the unemployment rate for African-Americans so high?

eohrnberger said:

Indeed so.

Smacks of unvarnished truth and years of actual first person observation. Given all the behavioral mal-adaptations and vastly dispersant value system from the rest of what one would call 'normal' society, is it any wonder these communities are in such a sad state? Yet their community leaders still go around and 'blame whitey' or the 'establishment' for all their ills. From reading this article, I come to the conclusion that the changes needed must largely come from these communities themselves and their leadership.

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There were a couple things he said that I wasn't comfortable with, but overall I appreciated his candor.

The biggest one for me was when he said black mothers often pray for acquittal over justice. Ok, in a technical non-involved objective sense, one should hope for justice. But these were mothers, and while I don;t think they were being objective at all, they were being emotional. I don't intellectually agree with it, but I understand it, and am willing to overlook that one, or at least not condemn it as harshly.

ttwtt78640 said:

Using your very broad definition of disparate impact (by including white folks) then try to defend the NBA which has a hugely disproportionally high number of black players just as hockey has the reverse. It is easy to define the non-proportional outcome but much harder to identify (or correct) the cause of this alleged "racism". Should the NBA or NHL be forced to change policy (standards for getting hired/drafted) until they achieve some sort of racial diversity quota?

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What definition did I give, again?

eohrnberger said:

Indeed so.

Smacks of unvarnished truth and years of actual first person observation. Given all the behavioral mal-adaptations and vastly dispersant value system from the rest of what one would call 'normal' society, is it any wonder these communities are in such a sad state? Yet their community leaders still go around and 'blame whitey' or the 'establishment' for all their ills. From reading this article, I come to the conclusion that the changes needed must largely come from these communities themselves and their leadership.

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Those communities don't have any leadership to speak of. If you're looking for someone to blame, you should wonder why the successful African-Americans and the NAACP aren't doing more to help the underclass.

Lutherf said:

This article isn't directly related to employment but it might give you some ideas - Confessions of a Public Defender | American Renaissance

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This is a sad, but likely accurate, dose of real world experience. It contains some glaring logical fallacies as it both blames the welfare state (no expectation of self support and yet being "deserving" of instant gratification) for creating criminals and yet describes welfare as both necessary and compassionate. It also points out the nearly complete cultural/social/educational wasteland (vacuum?) that persists in "the hood". This would make an excellent thread of its own.

DifferentDrummr said:

Those communities don't have any leadership to speak of. If you're looking for someone to blame, you should wonder why the successful African-Americans and the NAACP aren't doing more to help the underclass.

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That help requires conditional rewards; try to train a puppy if any behavior gets it an equal reward of a treat and praise.

The idea that employers discriminate against people because they are black is stupid. The vast majority of businessmen couldn't give a rat's ass what color your skin is, they just want results. If you can give them the results they want, they'll hire you, if not, then either head on down to your local Burger King or potato farmer and get job there or maybe try to improve your job skills so that you have a better shot at getting a job that doesn't include "Do you want fries with that?" or busting your ass in the hot sun for 16 hours a day.

DifferentDrummr said:

Those communities don't have any leadership to speak of. If you're looking for someone to blame, you should wonder why the successful African-Americans and the NAACP aren't doing more to help the underclass.

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The leaders of prominence that I had in mind were the NAACP, the African-American Congressional Caucus, Sharpton, Jackson, and dozens of other organizations, but yes, to really left these communities out of their current level of dysfunctionality, to steer, guide them away from their current course of self-destruction, onto a better track, one were more of the people of these communities can succeed in what one would call the more 'normal' society.

Hey, I'm all for the people of these communities to wildly succeed in life. Not only for themselves, and their successes, their greater life satisfaction, but also for the greater general good, as there'll be far less required to support those that can support themselves.

faithful_servant said:

The idea that employers discriminate against people because they are black is stupid. The vast majority of businessmen couldn't give a rat's ass what color your skin is, they just want results. If you can give them the results they want, they'll hire you, if not, then either head on down to your local Burger King or potato farmer and get job there or maybe try to improve your job skills so that you have a better shot at getting a job that doesn't include "Do you want fries with that?" or busting your ass in the hot sun for 16 hours a day.

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And yet it's demonstrable :shrug:

Chicago GSB | Capital Ideas

joko104 said:

Multiple choice, public poll

The unemployment rate of African Americans remains at least double that of whites and is the highest unemployment demographic. The overall economic gap remains as great.

What is most notable is that there has been NO improvement for 5 decades. There is:
The Civil Rights Act
Voting Rights Act
Forced Busing
Preference for Minority loans and contracts
Hate Crimes legislation
Outlawing racial discrimination in employment, commerce and housing
Affirmative action in education
Every increasing social, benefits and welfare programs
Neighborhood revival programs
Preferential loans in housing

Yet all that - and none has helped African-Americans in terms of unemployment, lower economic status and unemployment. 50 years of a trillion dollars and a zillion words - all that appears a failure, if not counter productive.

These ten charts show the black-white economic gap hasn

So... what is the reason(s) unemployment remains so high for African-Americans?

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Great question.

I think starting out, many black kids grow up in highly dysfunctional homes. If a mom AND a dad aren't there to help Johnny with his homework and provide a home life conducive for healthy upbringing, Johnny is going to have problems as an adult. Why there are a disproportionate number of dysfunctional black homes is a different question but very briefly, I don't think its Johnny's fault. His parents/grandparents were handed a lesser of evils options.

A. The ability for children to eat but no father allowed in the home or
B. No food for the kids but Dad gets to stay

...under a multi-generational system of depriving blacks of equal education and higher income employment opportunities and thus experice that had just statutorily ended.


Secondly, an unhealthy embracing of the hip-hop culture. Whether you're White and have tattoos on your face, body piercings in your nose and green and blue hair or you're Black and wear you pants falling off your butt, gold teeth grillz, dreadlocks, etc.; you probably aren't going to do well in the job interview. Problem is a SIGNIFICANT number of young Black males embrace the hip-hop culture as an identity probably because most of their role-models have in fact achieved success through the hip-hop culture. Sadly, many if not most Black youths see hip-hop or professional sports as their only access to the American dream but to so few prominent role-models.

Lastly, I do think there is discrimination in the workplace to some degree. Its a little harder for Black men to get jobs I think; not impossible obviously but not as easy. Almost every black man has heard "the only reason you have that position is because you're black," whether its true or not. Almost every black man who has achieved some degree of success has heard in so many words "you're incompetent" often after having done as good a job as any of his predecessors and I'm thinking of one case right now of having exceeded the benchmarks of his white predecessor on numerous levels.

Last lastly , I think juvenile and young adult delinquency arrest records, that are public information, hurts black male employment. Take a kid who grew up with no dad around, which is disproportionally more common if you're black, and its more likely he'll get in trouble with the law at a young age. That record then follows him for life in every job interview he'll have. My own brother got in a fight with someone while defending a young female relative from a 40 year old man, was arrested for assault, etc. Once police figured out what had happened, the charges were dropped but the arrest record remains. Today he has trouble getting hired and is always rejected for applications to rent apartments out of concern for liability and playing it safe with someone who can pose a threat to the safety of other employees or other renters. Again, he was never charged, just arrested and let go.

ttwtt78640 said:

This is a sad, but likely accurate, dose of real world experience. It contains some glaring logical fallacies as it both blames the welfare state (no expectation of self support and yet being "deserving" of instant gratification) for creating criminals and yet describes welfare as both necessary and compassionate. It also points out the nearly complete cultural/social/educational wasteland (vacuum?) that persists in "the hood". This would make an excellent thread of its own.

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My interpretation of that was that he *wanted* to still believe the welfare state is compassionate.

It would indeed make an excellent thread of its own.

Smeagol said:

Great question.

I think starting out, many black kids grow up in highly dysfunctional homes. If a mom AND a dad aren't there to help Johnny with his homework and provide a home life conducive for healthy upbringing, Johnny is going to have problems as an adult. Why there are a disproportionate number of dysfunctional black homes is a different question but very briefly, I don't think its Johnny's fault. His parents/grandparents were handed a lesser of evils options.

A. The ability for children to eat but no father allowed in the home or
B. No food for the kids but Dad gets to stay

...under a multi-generational system of depriving blacks of equal education and higher income employment opportunities and thus experice that had just statutorily ended.


Secondly, an unhealthy embracing of the hip-hop culture. Whether you're White and have tattoos on your face, body piercings in your nose and green and blue hair or you're Black and wear you pants falling off your butt, gold teeth grillz, dreadlocks, etc.; you probably aren't going to do well in the job interview. Problem is a SIGNIFICANT number of young Black males embrace the hip-hop culture as an identity probably because most of their role-models have in fact achieved success through the hip-hop culture. Sadly, many if not most Black youths see hip-hop or professional sports as their only access to the American dream but to so few prominent role-models.

Lastly, I do think there is discrimination in the workplace to some degree. Its a little harder for Black men to get jobs I think; not impossible obviously but not as easy. Almost every black man has heard "the only reason you have that position is because you're black," whether its true or not. Almost every black man who has achieved some degree of success has heard in so many words "you're incompetent" often after having done as good a job as any of his predecessors and I'm thinking of one case right now of having exceeded the benchmarks of his white predecessor on numerous levels.

Last lastly , I think juvenile and young adult delinquency arrest records, that are public information, hurts black male employment. Take a kid who grew up with no dad around, which is disproportionally more common if you're black, and its more likely he'll get in trouble with the law at a young age. That record then follows him for life in every job interview he'll have. My own brother got in a fight with someone while defending a young female relative from a 40 year old man, was arrested for assault, etc. Once police figured out what had happened, the charges were dropped but the arrest record remains. Today he has trouble getting hired and is always rejected for applications to rent apartments out of concern for liability and playing it safe with someone who can pose a threat to the safety of other employees or other renters. Again, he was never charged, just arrested and let go.

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Green: From the outside looking in, I agree that blacks have a harder time getting hired to begin with. I'd even suspect that the numbers of blacks who have heard "...you only have that job because you're black..." is dwarfed by the numbers of blacks who weren't hired to begin with.

Red: Your brother's experience is why I believe arrest records should be inaccessible to the public. Especially in light of today's "arrest 'em all and sort 'em out later" mindset. An arrest doesn't automatically mean a damn thing.

radcen said:

Green: From the outside looking in, I agree that blacks have a harder time getting hired to begin with. I'd even suspect that the numbers of blacks who have heard "...you only have that job because you're black..." is dwarfed by the numbers of blacks who weren't hired to begin with.

Red: Your brother's experience is why I believe arrest records should be inaccessible to the public. Especially in light of today's "arrest 'em all and sort 'em out later" mindset. An arrest doesn't automatically mean a damn thing.

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When reading about this good samaritan, it also immediately came to mind that he was trying to do the 'right' and noble thing, and got little more than unfairly branded for it. With that sort of response from society, is it any wonder that good samaritan acts are decreasing? (If they are, would seem like they would be).

There's no legal recourse to expunge his record of this arrest record?

eohrnberger said:

When reading about this good samaritan, it also immediately came to mind that he was trying to do the 'right' and noble thing, and got little more than unfairly branded for it. With that sort of response from society, is it any wonder that good samaritan acts are decreasing? (If they are, would seem like they would be).

There's no legal recourse to expunge his record of this arrest record?

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I know a couple people who have had records expunged and they still end up popping up in inopportune times.

radcen said:

I know a couple people who have had records expunged and they still end up popping up in inopportune times.

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Geez. That's annoying. Guess you can't count on government to even do something as simple as this correctly? Or are they popping up from another source?

eohrnberger said:

Geez. That's annoying. Guess you can't count on government to even do something as simple as this correctly? Or are they popping up from another source?

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If I understand them correctly, from another source. Arrests and the such are still public record prior to being expunged, and I guess some outside the system keep track.

cpwill said:

It's not an option in the poll, but I would add that African Americans are also more likely to be competing with cheaper, illegal labor who can underbid them.

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I would also add in a rising minimum wage. That keeps people out of the entry-level workforce.

eohrnberger said:

When reading about this good samaritan, it also immediately came to mind that he was trying to do the 'right' and noble thing, and got little more than unfairly branded for it. With that sort of response from society, is it any wonder that good samaritan acts are decreasing? (If they are, would seem like they would be).

There's no legal recourse to expunge his record of this arrest record?

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I spoke with a lawyer friend about getting it sealed but he says convictions can be sealed but arrest records cannot since there is no "criminal history" to conceal. I suspect he was thinking I was asking for a pro bono favor (which I was ) and came up with an excuse to get out of it.

I think this sort thing needs to be ruled against by the courts or a police agency somewhere is going to have to be sued for defamation for it to end.

274ina said:

Because they don't know how to do a job. ANy job.

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'They' being Africans?

Misterveritis said:

I would also add in a rising minimum wage. That keeps people out of the entry-level workforce.

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What? Those jobs disappear?

Smeagol said:

I spoke with a lawyer friend about getting it sealed but he says convictions can be sealed but arrest records cannot since there is no "criminal history" to conceal. I suspect he was thinking I was asking for a pro bono favor (which I was ) and came up with an excuse to get out of it.

I think this sort thing needs to be ruled against by the courts or a police agency somewhere is going to have to be sued for defamation for it to end.

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Hey, I'm really sorry that your brother is getting screwed for being a nice guy. I really don't think that that sort of thing should happen to nice guys. We actually need more of them, not fewer of them.

DifferentDrummr said:

Which is mostly the result of family failure and lack of access to decent schools.

I put those down as the top two, followed by discrimination (which happens clandestinely).

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You don't need a school to teach.

Show up on time.

Do the job. Learn a few tasks.

Don't act like an idiot, ie hide from the boss games.

It does not take years of schooling to learn this.

274ina said:

You don't need a school to teach.

Show up on time.

Do the job. Learn a few tasks.

Don't act like an idiot, ie hide from the boss games.

It does not take years of schooling to learn this.

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Some, many or most jobs operate of a political culture. Favoritism, who sucks up the best, who does the boss have a crush on, dare I say who sleeps with the boss, who plays golf with the boss, who has dirt on the company that could land the owner in jail, etc.; very often matter more than job performance. Some places being the wrong race plays a role on who gets hired, promoted and given raises albeit unofficially, of course.

274ina said:

You don't need a school to teach.

Show up on time.

Do the job. Learn a few tasks.

Don't act like an idiot, ie hide from the boss games.

It does not take years of schooling to learn this.

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But it might take years of education to approach a job with this attitude and still expect to keep it and get paid.

a351 said:

And yet it's demonstrable :shrug:

Chicago GSB | Capital Ideas

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I keep seeing that study and every time I do I ask myself just what exactly is a white-sounding name... In order for this study to be carried out, the researchers had to have a substantial racial bias, making the study results HIGHLY questionable,

Grand Mal said:

What? Those jobs disappear?

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Yes. They do.