View Poll Results: Should the Satan religious display be allowed in the florida state capital

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Thread: Should the Satan religious display be allowed in the florida state capital?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should the Satan religious display be allowed in the florida state capital?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    BTW, you want to talk about hypocritical? Try this....Is Atheism a religion? poll I take note of where you voted...
    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I don't think the religious deserve special treatment at all. And I dare you to show where I said or implied that. I'll bet that you'll find plenty of posts stating that I am against religion faster though. IE: you're barking up the wrong tree here.

    And as I said before, I'm not deciding, or judging anything here. Unless you want to now claim that atheism is a religion? Just how many atheists are going to support you on that absurdity? Be sure to change the definition of atheism while you're at it. Good luck to you on that.
    I've never implied atheism was a religion, I simply stated that you can't tell someone their religion is made up, because they're all made up and completely subjective.

    You've stated over and over again that you don't think their religion is real enough and that there should be consequences for "lying about it". You're saying the religious should be able to set up displays in government buildings but those you don't deem worthy enough shouldn't. As I stated before, it's all or nothing for the government. They can not pick winners and losers. Either all religions are welcome to set up displays, or none are. What YOUR opinion of satanism is, is completely irrelevant.

    Perhaps the core tenant of the satanist religion is to annoy people like you. Every bit as legitimate as any other religion.

    By the way, I thought we settled this whole church and state thing a few hundred years back and we've seen quite a bit of benefit from it. Why are we re-opening this discussion and asking whether it might be good to infuse the two again?
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 12-30-14 at 04:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  2. #62
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    Re: Should the Satan religious display be allowed in the florida state capital?

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    Woman arrested after damaging Satanic display at Florida Capitol | Fox News

    Branching off the discussion from this article, should the state of florida have even put up the display in the first place?

    Why or why not?
    in this situation the answer is yes of course

    everybody gets to participate or nobody does, its a free speech zone or its a no speech zone, it can't be in the middle.

    this is probably the best post i read

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    Either: The state set up a "free speech zone" as a genuine forum for open speech, including expressions of religious devotion. As such, the state has no right to censor a group on the basis of their religion.

    Or: Legislators set up the "free speech zone" as a back-door effort to promulgate their own religious beliefs. In which case, they got exactly what they deserved -- a bunch of wise-asses who mercilessly mocked their attempts to violate the establishment of religion.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Should the Satan religious display be allowed in the florida state capital?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I've never implied atheism was a religion, I simply stated that you can't tell someone their religion is made up, because they're all made up and completely subjective.
    No, that is not what you "simply" said. You are defending these Satanists and by defending them you are saying that they are religious. They are not. By their own definition of themselves and the definition of atheism they are not. And no, they didn't "make up" their own religion. They stole a religious term as a means to provoke. That's not making up anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    You've stated over and over again that you don't think their religion is real enough and that there should be consequences for "lying about it". You're saying the religious should be able to set up displays in government buildings but those you don't deem worthy enough shouldn't. As I stated before, it's all or nothing for the government. They can not pick winners and losers. Either all religions are welcome to set up displays, or none are. What YOUR opinion of satanism is, is completely irrelevant.
    I've stated over and over again that per their own website and explanation, or definition, of themselves and the definition of atheism they are not religious at all. But atheists. By saying that they are religious and claiming such titles then they are, by definitions, lying. That is a fact. Indisputable. Or are you now claiming that atheism is now a religion?

    You should also note that in my first post in this thread I specifically stated that if these atheists had not lied then I would have no problem with what they are doing and if I were on the city council I would have also approved their permit to place their display. I also said that I would even have allowed real Satanists their displays. Funny how you ignore that in your jump to defend these so called "Satanists". Gotta push the Agenda right?
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    Re: Should the Satan religious display be allowed in the florida state capital?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No, that is not what you "simply" said. You are defending these Satanists and by defending them you are saying that they are religious. They are not. By their own definition of themselves and the definition of atheism they are not. And no, they didn't "make up" their own religion. They stole a religious term as a means to provoke. That's not making up anything.



    I've stated over and over again that per their own website and explanation, or definition, of themselves and the definition of atheism they are not religious at all. But atheists. By saying that they are religious and claiming such titles then they are, by definitions, lying. That is a fact. Indisputable. Or are you now claiming that atheism is now a religion?

    You should also note that in my first post in this thread I specifically stated that if these atheists had not lied then I would have no problem with what they are doing and if I were on the city council I would have also approved their permit to place their display. I also said that I would even have allowed real Satanists their displays. Funny how you ignore that in your jump to defend these so called "Satanists". Gotta push the Agenda right?
    Christians say the world was created in 7 days about 6,000 years ago. That's a lie, should we prosecute them? Religion is based on lies, and so is satanism. If you don't want lies in your government you should oppose religion in government. Sometimes I say I'm a pastafarian when really I'm an atheist. Would you like to have me arrested?

    Besides, officially this is a free speech zone, not a religious zone, and they're exercising that free speech. You can continue pouting, equality is a bitch sometimes isn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  5. #65
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    Re: Should the Satan religious display be allowed in the florida state capital?

    Either one religion or all religions. I do not see why one religion should be enjoy freedom of practice while the other one should not.

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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    Re: Should the Satan religious display be allowed in the florida state capital?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Perhaps the core tenant of the satanist religion is to annoy people like you. Every bit as legitimate as any other religion.
    Here is a good potential line to put in the signature!

    For those of you who have more space I mean?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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  7. #67
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    Re: Should the Satan religious display be allowed in the florida state capital?

    Yes assuming other religious paraphernalia are permitted to be displayed on government property. But the better policy would be to not display any religious paraphernalia on government property.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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    Re: Should the Satan religious display be allowed in the florida state capital?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The fail is on your side. In order for these atheists to put up their display they have to fill out a form correct? Lying on official forms is ILLEGAL. Don't believe me? Go and fill out a public form for the government and lie on it. Let them know you lied after you submit it.
    You haven't seen any such forms. Where would be the "lie" on the form? The name of the group? Is there a quiz about the religious beliefs of applicants on the form? Is an organization that calls itself the "Satanic Temple" obligated to actually be Satanists? Are members of the local Mason lodge required to actually be masons? Is the man who put up a Festivus pole required to genuinely believe in Festivus? There's no indication that any applications were rejected for "lying on official forms."

    The group openly and overtly states they are not actually Satanists. They're using the free speech zone to protest against the free speech zone, because they realize what it is -- an attempt to circumvent the constitutional injunctions against endorsement of a religion.



    By the way, if I lie on a park permit, I'm not going to jail.


    Its also screamingly obvious that they have let even liars put their display's up. And as you keep re-iterating its a free speech zone, not just a religious display zone. You defeat your own argument.
    Yes, only if you have no idea of the history of these displays. What happens is a local official puts up a nativity scene or religious iconography; locals object to the violation of the separation of church and state; the state is compelled to allow other displays. As is the case in other such sites, people use the space to criticize the misuse of public land for religious displays.

    I.e. it's only a "free speech zone" because that's the only way someone can put a nativity scene on public property. And again, they are getting what they deserve, in the form of protests.


    Oh look, you provided you're own answer here. Displays are perfectly constitutional so long as the government doesn't play favorites. And it sure seems to me that is exactly what happened here. No favorites was played. Which means its perfectly constitutional.
    Yes, favorites were played. This group's application was rejected last year, and was only approved this year after they threatened to sue.

  9. #69
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    Re: Should the Satan religious display be allowed in the florida state capital?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I picked other.Yes if the people actually wanting the statue up are actual practicing satanists. Meaning they regularly attend a satanic church,pray to Satan,celebrate satanic holidays, engage in satanic religious customs and etc. No if the people wanting the statue up are not real satanist. I suspect that the individuals wanting the satanic statue up are merely extremist whack job atheists trying to stick it to Christians to try to coerce Christians to take down what ever religious displays they have on tax payer funded property.
    I agree on principal, but I also agree with other folks that government should not get into the business of determining which religion is or is not valid.

    I support some minimum standards like 100 members, a designated place of worship, and some other stuff, but only because there is limited space in the capital and it makes sense that the more popular ones would get first crack at that space.

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    Re: Should the Satan religious display be allowed in the florida state capital?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The fail is on your side. In order for these atheists to put up their display they have to fill out a form correct? Lying on official forms is ILLEGAL. Don't believe me? Go and fill out a public form for the government and lie on it. Let them know you lied after you submit it.




    Its also screamingly obvious that they have let even liars put their display's up. And as you keep re-iterating its a free speech zone, not just a religious display zone. You defeat your own argument.



    Oh look, you provided you're own answer here. Displays are perfectly constitutional so long as the government doesn't play favorites. And it sure seems to me that is exactly what happened here. No favorites was played. Which means its perfectly constitutional.
    Can you show me the line on the form that asks about what the religion of the applicant is? https://adobeformscentral.com/?f=Alo...0vQaoRG157VIg#
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